Toyota dealer uncertainty in the oil viscosity used

[ZeeOSix]

People coming from ILSAC GF-4, GF-5 somewhere in their cars' manuals or similar need to know if they can use GF-6. They can (GF-6A being "backwards compatible") and they cannot (GF-6B because of lowered HTHSV not being "backwards compatible"). That's all.

Exactly ... it's a viscosity compatibility (HTHS) issue, not a formulation issue within the 0W-16 viscosity rating.

 

[EMPIRE]

People coming from ILSAC GF-4, GF-5 somewhere in their cars' manuals or similar need to know if they can use GF-6. They can (GF-6A being "backwards compatible") and they cannot (GF-6B because of lowered HTHSV not being "backwards compatible"). That's all.

Understood, but you are mixing back compat based on category, and then saying "any 0w16 is ok when swapping for any 0w16".

Does API SN map into ILSAC GF-5?

 

[EMPIRE]

These are the official API 1509 documents. See the first one (engine-oil licensing and certification system), pages 74, 131, and 135. 0W-16 is explicitly part of API SP. GF-6B is restricted to 0W-16 only, and you can't even have 5W-16 in GF-6B.

https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/documents/api-1509-documents

There is a lot of detail on licensing in the beginning of the document. I didn't go through the tables in pages 74 and 135, but I'm pretty sure API SP with Resource Conserving in the SAE 0W-16 viscosity grade is equivalent to ILSAC GF-6B.

Why on doc page 136 (test table for ILSAC GF-6B) it lists "Sulfur content for SAE 0W and 5W multigrades" when is 6B is limited to a 0W?

 

[53' Stude]

Understood, but you are mixing back compat based on category, and then saying "any 0w16 is ok when swapping for any 0w16".

Does API SN map into ILSAC GF-5?

 

[Gokhan]

I did not take 6B to mean 0w16 only (restricted). It is said 6B currently only has 0w16 in it, but 12' 8's & 4's might jump in later. Also some chatter about a 6C category. Maybe a better way to say it is "0w16 is in GF-6B". Why can't a 5w16 get into 6B?

GF-6B is about fuel economy, and that's why 5W-16 is excluded. It's the same reason why 10W-20, 20W-30 etc. is excluded from ILSAC categories such as GF-5 and GF-6A.

0W-8 and 0W-12 are currently covered by JASO GLV-1. It's not known if they will make their way into GF-6B before GF-7 arrives.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/0w-8-is-here-jaso-glv-1.327689/

 

[Gokhan]

Why on doc page 136 (test table for ILSAC GF-6B) it lists "Sulfur content for SAE 0W and 5W multigrades" when is 6B is limited to a 0W?

Because SP/SP RC and GF-6A/B are written together by the same consortium. This is a nonissue. There is no 5W-XX in GF-6B. Currently it's only 0W-16.

 

[EMPIRE]

GF-6B is about fuel economy, and that's why 5W-16 is excluded. It's the same reason why 10W-20, 20W-30 etc. is excluded from ILSAC categories such as GF-5 and GF-6A.

0W-8 and 0W-12 are currently covered by JASO GLV-1. It's not known if they will make their way into GF-6B before GF-7 arrives.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/0w-8-is-here-jaso-glv-1.327689/

and why I was wondering why "5W" is shown in the tests table under GF-6B?

edit: your reply came in just as I was typing this.

seeing 5W in there does confuse the readers.

 

[OilUzer]

@Gokhan ,

where have you been?
Instead of posting here in an air conditioned room, you are shopping in 110° heat?
Were you on vacation? ⛱

I think using anything below 0W20 should be a crime regardless of GF whatever. lol

 

[NH73]

They should be changing it every 5,000 miles with 0w20, when it calls for 0w16.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Info from API's website.

See slide that starts at time 6 seconds.
https://www.api.org/~/media/Files/C...l-Diesel/Publications/API_V2_013120.mp4?la=en

https://www.api.org/products-and-se...ies-and-classifications/latest-oil-categories
Oil makers can even mark GF-6A and GF-6B as explained in the 4th bullet.

"Oil marketers may now license oils meeting ILSAC GF-6A as ILSAC GF-5 and API SN, GF-6B as API SN and API SP as API SN."

EMPIRE - are you even more confused now, lol.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Per the API ... NO issues with back compatibility.

 

[PimTac]

@Gokhan ,

where have you been?
Instead of posting here in an air conditioned room, you are shopping in 110° heat?
Were you on vacation? ⛱

I think using anything below 0W20 should be a crime regardless of GF whatever. lol

why? 0w16 is a fantastic oil.

 

[Gokhan]

The OP has just explained another reason that "free or complimentary" oil changes are no bargain. Some dealers may not want to have 4 tanks of bulk oil: 0w-16, 0w-20, 5w-20 and 5w-30. I know the principle involved, but unless I lived in the Sierra Nevadas, I would't really give a hoot if my new Toyota in California received 0w-20. Now Gokhan may only get 69 mpg now instead of 70.

You got me worried that they put SAE 0W-20 when I averaged 69 mpg on my way to work today. However, on my way back home, average trip gas mileage hit 100 mpg at one point, not accounting for battery used, and it finished with 91 mpg when I arrived home with the battery at the same level as at the trip start. Therefore, the average gas mileage for the day was 80 mpg. I guess this is not bad for a fresh SAE 0W-16. I expect it to drop to 70 mpg when the oil ages.

 

[dlundblad]

Check the manual. I’m sure it says something like 0w20 and 5w20 etc. can be used if 0w16 isnt available.

You’re fine.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

That's interesting. SP version probably has a lot of Group V AN and/or POE as the missing 20% in the MSDS for the base oil. I know TGMO 0W-20 SN by ExxonMobil used a lot of POE in the past. ExxonMobil uses AN in its non-FS and non-ESP Mobil 1 oils, and it uses POE in its FS and ESP Mobil 1 oils.

...

TGMO 0W-16 SP ExxonMobil

Name CAS# Concentration* GHS Hazard Code

Alkylene aromatic amine 36878-20-3 1- Di[alkyl (C=14-18)-2-hydroxybenzoic acid] mosquito Lucium salt 114959-46-5 0.1-
...

My question, not having anything to do with backward compatibility (thankfully) is:

What in the name of !!! is mosquito Lucium salt ?!

- Ken

 

[Gokhan]

My question, not having anything to do with backward compatibility (thankfully) is:

What in the name of !!! is mosquito Lucium salt ?!

- Ken

"Lucium was the proposed name for an alleged new element found by chemist Prosper Barrière in 1896 in the mineral monazite. Later, William Crookes confirmed that the new element was actually an impure sample of yttrium."

"Lucium may be available in the countries listed: Paraguay. Clobazam is reported as an ingredient of Lucium."

Nevertheless, mosquito Lucium is apparently supposed to be calcium but Google Translate seems to be having difficulty with its Japanese. LOL

In another note I requested the TGMO 0W-16 SP MSDS from ExxonMobil, but they referred me to Toyota as in the past. It's not going to happen.

 

[Gokhan]

why? 0w16 is a fantastic oil.

This is an understatement. I am all for the latest technology, whether it be 0W-16 or Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G. If I can get the technology of the future, it's even better.

 

[madeej11]

Wouldn't the next service be at 15,581. Every 10k right? Is the sticker wrong or am I ?

 

[Gokhan]

Wouldn't the next service be at 15,581. Every 10k right? Is the sticker wrong or am I ?

The following is the 2020 Toyota Prius Prime maintenance guide.

2020 Toyota Prius Prime warranty & maintenance guide

 

[Deleted member 89374]

They probably went with what was in the bulk drum since its a comp change. Best case scenario the computer is wrong throughout so the sticker is wrong as well.

Sounds like my Hyundai dealer who used to put 5W-20 conventional in 2.0 Turbo Sonatas and Santa Fe Sport SUVs... oh, and in 3.3L Lambada II engines. A sure way to make sure your loyal customers will return in a jiffy for a trade-in

Oh, on a few occasions they drained the oil out of a vehicle, changed the filter, and forgot to put new oil in it

I will never go to a dealer to do an oil change ever again, that's for sure.