Toyota dealer uncertainty in the oil viscosity used

[BMW Dom]

People are insane. I got behind an old suburban or tahoe yesterday. Picture this:

Old chevy tahoe originally was white, now one of the doors on the back is gray from peeling paint, whole vehicle looks like crap. It's hopped up on giant rims and the front suspension is jacked up so that the car nose is way up in the air and the back is squatting. Blasting this horrible noise that I can hear 4 car lengths back with the windows rolled up. (I refuse to call that style of rap music and if that offends you, sorry not sorry.) So we're driving down the road and the passenger has his arm out the window waving around. We hit a traffic light and this horrible monstrosity moves into the turn lane and goes past me. The passenger is holding a wad of $20 bills out the window. Thankfully the light changed and I was able to escape. How someone can think that behavior, vehicle, and noise are attractive or "cool" does not compute. But it happened. I saw it. (Besides, if he was going for the rich gangsta it should have been a wad of $100s)

People suck.

Am I missing something? I'm confused how this has to do with oil viscosity.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Am I missing something? I'm confused how this has to do with oil viscosity.

It doesn't. I was relating to Gokhan's crazy driving experience.

 

[Rod Knock]

People are insane. I got behind an old suburban or tahoe yesterday. Picture this:

Old chevy tahoe originally was white, now one of the doors on the back is gray from peeling paint, whole vehicle looks like crap. It's hopped up on giant rims and the front suspension is jacked up so that the car nose is way up in the air and the back is squatting. Blasting this horrible noise that I can hear 4 car lengths back with the windows rolled up. (I refuse to call that style of rap music and if that offends you, sorry not sorry.) So we're driving down the road and the passenger has his arm out the window waving around. We hit a traffic light and this horrible monstrosity moves into the turn lane and goes past me. The passenger is holding a wad of $20 bills out the window. Thankfully the light changed and I was able to escape. How someone can think that behavior, vehicle, and noise are attractive or "cool" does not compute. But it happened. I saw it. (Besides, if he was going for the rich gangsta it should have been a wad of $100s)

People suck.

Welcome to civilization and the 21st century. No one cares anymore. No one has any shame left. Entitlement, self-righteousness, and self-importance are all that matter now. Oh, and the feelings, of course, because God forbid you to hurt someone's feelings by being honest with them. Am I close?

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Welcome to civilization and the 21st century. No one cares anymore. No one has any shame left. Entitlement, self-righteousness, and self-importance are all that matter now. Oh, and the feelings, of course, because God forbid you to hurt someone's feelings by being honest with them. Am I close?

I'm just mean enough to enjoy hurting feelings with honesty.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Welcome to civilization and the 21st century. No one cares anymore. No one has any shame left. Entitlement, self-righteousness, and self-importance are all that matter now. Oh, and the feelings, of course, because God forbid you to hurt someone's feelings by being honest with them. Am I close?

Hey! I see you have a Sonata with the 2.5L. Where is the filter located? Underneath?

 

[Rod Knock]

Hey! I see you have a Sonata with the 2.5L. Where is the filter located? Underneath?

Yes, underneath at the front. Be careful when you pop out the little plastic pins. The cover is made out of very flimsy plastic. It's so flimsy that it get scratched even by other plastic, lol. I used an iPad pry tool, and it still left scratches. It's almost like they tried to use as cheap as possible plastics when building this vehicle.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Yes, underneath at the front. Be careful when you pop out the little plastic pins. The cover is made out of very flimsy plastic. It's so flimsy that it get scratched even by other plastic, lol. I used an iPad pry tool, and it still left scratches. It's almost like they tried to use as cheap as possible plastics when building this vehicle.

Thanks for this. I just bought a K5 GT last week and it has the 2.5L in turbo form. Been googling in circles and posting on the board trying to figure out what filter it uses and where the filter is located. Do you buy your filters from the dealer or do you have another source?

 

[Rod Knock]

Thanks for this. I just bought a K5 GT last week and it has the 2.5L in turbo form. Been googling in circles and posting on the board trying to figure out what filter it uses and where the filter is located. Do you buy your filters from the dealer or do you have another source?

Congratulations on the KIA K5 GT. That's a sweet vehicle. The Sonata is actually my brother's. Well, we got it together. He's overseas most of the time, only drives it when he's back here. I buy filters from the dealer. I haven't found a cheaper source yet, and there is no aftermarket for them. It looks like synthetic media, considering that it's nice and white as opposed to brownish.

What oil will you be using? The only 0W-30 widely available is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 (if you are a stickler for what they recommend). If it were mine, I would have no problem using Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 or Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30. Amsoil SS 0W-30 seems like an excellent choice also.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Congratulations on the KIA K5 GT. That's a sweet vehicle. The Sonata is actually my brother's. Well, we got it together. He's overseas most of the time, only drives it when he's back here. I buy filters from the dealer. I haven't found a cheaper source yet, and there is no aftermarket for them. It looks like synthetic media, considering that it's nice and white as opposed to brownish.

What oil will you be using? The only 0W-30 widely available is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 (if you are a stickler for what they recommend). If it were mine, I would have no problem using Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 or Castrol EDGE EP 5W-30. Amsoil SS 0W-30 seems like an excellent choice also.

I'm deciding between a 5w-30 Euro (Pennzoil or Castrol) oil or M1 HM 10w-30 (A3/B3). The M1 is 12cst @100C and 3.5 cP HTHS

I may just switch back and forth a few times to see what the car likes best. I'm leaning toward the 10w-30 because I'm in FL and don't need 5w anything AND the Euro oils are full saps vs the mid-saps M1. And the M1 meets API SP and the euro's don't because they don't meet the 800ppm phosphorus limit under SP. Full SAPS can protect better, but also can have more deposits... but then this engine is MPI AND GDI so the valves do get some cleaning...

bitog problems...

It's probably going to end up the M1 HM 10w-30 because of the API qualification. It's the stoutest oil in 30 I've been able to come up with that meets SP. However I need to go look at the bottles on the shelf because the SOPUS website is out of date. The owner's manual calls out for SN+ or SP in a 0w-30

 

[Rod Knock]

I'm deciding between a 5w-30 Euro (Pennzoil or Castrol) oil or M1 HM 10w-30 (A3/B3). The M1 is 12cst @100C and 3.5 cP HTHS

I may just switch back and forth a few times to see what the car likes best. I'm leaning toward the 10w-30 because I'm in FL and don't need 5w anything AND the Euro oils are full saps vs the mid-saps M1. And the M1 meets API SP and the euro's don't because they don't meet the 800ppm phosphorus limit under SP. Full SAPS can protect better, but also can have more deposits... but then this engine is MPI AND GDI so the valves do get some cleaning...

bitog problems...

It's probably going to end up the M1 HM 10w-30 because of the API qualification. The owner's manual calls out for SN+ or SP in a 0w-30

I used to be all about Full SAPS oils. However, for modern engines, it's not really needed or even desired. For example, the 5.7 HEMI runs really well with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, and it's quieter than with 5W-20. The lifter bleed issue isn't as pronounced either with 0W-40. Then again, the 5.7 HEMI is kind of a crappy engine, and the biggest contributor to the valve train noise in that engine is actually the tiny oil filter that RAM specs, not the oil viscosity. I use the bigger filter used on Hellcats and SRT vehicles. However, my 2.4L Santa FE runs better with 5W-30 than it did with 0W-40. The fuel mileage improvement is tangible, and the motor is much more rev-happy.

Your 2.5L Turbo has an internal oil cooler and a heat exchanger, and the turbo is water-cooled (well, coolant-cooled). If you really want a mostly PAO oil easily available anywhere then I would go for Castrol EDGE 0W-40. You will lose some MPG though. However, Amsoil SS 0W-30 is an awesome oil, and Amsoil released it in the 90s I believe, so they had plenty of time to finetune it. I would definitively not use an HM oil in a brand new high-tech engine like that, and definitively not 10W-30. Just my two cents.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

I used to be all about Full SAPS oils. However, for modern engines, it's not really needed or even desired. For example, the 5.7 HEMI runs really well with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, and it's quieter than with 5W-20. The lifter bleed issue isn't as pronounced either with 0W-40. Then again, the 5.7 HEMI is kind of a crappy engine, and the biggest contributor to the valve train noise in that engine is actually the tiny oil filter that RAM specs, not the oil viscosity. I use the bigger filter used on Hellcats and SRT vehicles. However, my 2.4L Santa FE runs better with 5W-30 than it did with 0W-40. The fuel mileage improvement is tangible, and the motor is much more rev-happy.

Your 2.5L Turbo has an internal oil cooler and a heat exchanger, and the turbo is water-cooled (well, coolant-cooled). If you really want a mostly PAO oil easily available anywhere then I would go for Castrol EDGE 0W-40. You will lose some MPG though. However, Amsoil SS 0W-30 is an awesome oil, and Amsoil released it in the 90s I believe, so they had plenty of time to finetune it. I would definitively not use an HM oil in a brand new high-tech engine like that, and definitively not 10W-30. Just my two cents.

What is your objection to 10w-30? It has a noack around 7% iirc and it's a nice thick 30. It meets API SP and has the HTHS The xw-40s you've mentioned are actually thicker at temp than the 10w-30.

The castrol edge you recommend only meets api SN. Probably because of the 800ppm phosphorus limit.

 

[Rod Knock]

What is your objection to 10w-30? It has a noack around 7% iirc and it's a nice thick 30. It meets API SP and has the HTHS The xw-40s you've mentioned are actually thicker at temp than the 10w-30.

The castrol edge you recommend only meets api SN. Probably because of the 800ppm phosphorus limit.

The 10w-30 is a group III oil with very little VI. It ends up being thicker than any current 0W-40 (in real world applications, not on paper). It's thicker for sure when cold. Anyway, it's your vehicle, so use what you want.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

The 10w-30 is a group III oil with very little VI. It ends up being thicker than any current 0W-40 (in real world applications, not on paper). It's thicker for sure when cold. Anyway, it's your vehicle, so use what you want.

If you know of another 30 grade that is both API SN+ or SP and HTHS of 3.5 I’m all ears. I want thick. When I put my foot down this engine lays down 311 lb-ft from 1650 to 4K rpm and the oil in the crank bearings is getting the potatoes made into French fries. So I’m looking for as thick as I can find in 30 that meets OEM requirements. I need to preserve the warranty.

Splitting hairs I know, but such is the BITOG Way.


Can you expand a bit more on how the M1 HM 10w-30 would be thicker in the real world than a 0w-40? I know that on paper the M1 0w-40 is indeed a touch thinner (11.7 vs 12cst) at 100C while only having slightly more HTHS at 3.6, just inside 40 grade.

Thinner base oil plus lots of VI right? Clever, but I don’t think VI lubricates. 🤔

I get it, you think the best oil for the car is something Xw-30 around 10cst and 3.0-3.1 HTHS. And you may be right. I’m experimenting. At worst I’ll sap a little power. I shall let the data decide. After 10k miles I will begin UOA

 

[Rod Knock]

If you know of another 30 grade that is both API SN+ or SP and HTHS of 3.5 I’m all ears. I want thick. When I put my foot down this engine lays down 311 lb-ft from 1650 to 4K rpm and the oil in the crank bearings is getting the potatoes made into French fries. So I’m looking for as thick as I can find in 30 that meets OEM requirements. I need to preserve the warranty.

Splitting hairs I know, but such is the BITOG Way.


Can you expand a bit more on how the M1 HM 10w-30 would be thicker in the real world than a 0w-40? I know that on paper the M1 0w-40 is indeed a touch thinner (11.7 vs 12cst) at 100C while only having slightly more HTHS at 3.6, just inside 40 grade.

Thinner base oil plus lots of VI right? Clever, but I don’t think VI lubricates. 🤔

I get it, you think the best oil for the car is something Xw-30 around 10cst and 3.0-3.1 HTHS. And you may be right. I’m experimenting. At worst I’ll sap a little power. I shall let the data decide. After 10k miles I will begin UOA

I feel that this topic needs its own thread. I would start a new thread if I were you and ask BITOG's best and brightest for their input. I will contribute mine as well. I just don't think that we should derail this thread any further. Plus, it will be easier for others that own a similar Hyundai/KIA vehicle to find answers.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

I have one going under
Kia K5 GT oil suggestions.