Toyota dealer uncertainty in the oil viscosity used

Messages
3,752
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
I honestly don't see the problem using 0w20 vs 0w16. The engine is not going to explode and the only difference will be 0.02 % reduction in fuel economy. I try to pick my battles and this is one I would not bother with. Enjoy the free service.
That’s not his point.

Gokhan knows the difference between 16 & 20.

The point is that he spent the money to buy a brand-new machine that is capable of remarkable efficiency, and he wanted the latest and greatest oil that’s designed and formulated for efficiency in the car.

Furthermore, it’s a matter of professionalism and trust for a dealership to know what fluids and parts your car specifies. You should be able to trust that they’ll know, and use, what the car is spec’d to have, by the designers.

We, as consumers, shouldn’t have to catch mistakes like this from a dealership we’re paying good money to do whats supposed to be the “best” quality work on our cars.

If he wanted mistakes like this made, he would have taken it to the local Jiffy Lube or something.

Will it likely make a big difference in economy? Probably not a huge difference.

It’s the principle.

He wanted the feeling of knowing, especially as a motor oil enthusiast, that he was getting the latest and greatest 0W-16 TGMO that was formulated to allow the absolute best economy from a machine that was designed to be one of the most efficient cars on the road today.
 
Messages
2,278
Location
WA
But what type of moly is it?

The tri-nuclear variety is very effective in small doses.

Not sure what type QS has but if there is a good chunk, it must be the non-nuclear kind.

A lot of oils don't use either kind of moly and use Titanium, etc. (Tungsten?, Boron?) instead.

I think TGMO has or used to have good chunk of moly but it's expensive.

Evidently Toyota and most Japanese engines like Moly so will your new 4Runner!
I wouldn't use it though if I were you since your car is new and you may not hear the engine and restart it while it's running. :ROFLMAO:
 
Messages
3,752
Location
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Not sure what type QS has but if there is a good chunk, it must be the non-nuclear kind.

A lot of oils don't use either kind of moly and use Titanium, etc. (Tungsten?, Boron?) instead.

I think TGMO has or used to have good chunk of moly but it's expensive.

Evidently Toyota and most Japanese engines like Moly so will your new 4Runner!
I wouldn't use it though if I were you since your car is new and you may not hear the engine and restart it while it's running. :ROFLMAO:
I am looking forward to changing it and using some 30W. There’s a lot of mechanical noise from the engine - seems like even more than with my 2007 Tacoma. Thinking some 30W might quiet it down and makenit run a little smoother.

Might just still be gettimy broken in and loosening up.
 
Messages
17,231
Location
Upper Midwest
I just read through it, and the oil needs to be pre-heated first. It's also interesting how it can change over time as oil goes through heating and cooling cycles.
But beyond that, pour point was shown to be an inaccurate indicator of cold-weather performance. SAE J300 was revised to reflect that. The winter rating of the oil is the accurate performance parameter, not pour point.

And the video isn't even measuring pour point so you're actually two steps away from anything worthwhile.
 
Messages
476
Location
North Carolina
But beyond that, pour point was shown to be an inaccurate indicator of cold-weather performance. SAE J300 was revised to reflect that. The winter rating of the oil is the accurate performance parameter, not pour point.

And the video isn't even measuring pour point so you're actually two steps away from anything worthwhile.

Well, I already admitted that I was wrong, so you're beating a dead horse. 😁

Though it's funny how there are many threads comparing motor oils, specs, VOAs, and UOAs, and many of us here pick motor oils based on that information because honestly, it's all we have to base our decision on. So making an exception for TGMO saying that the not-so-great point should be ignored because the actual rating is based on the winter rating is biased. The additive content might have something to do with it, probably the high Moly. Nevertheless, if you need an 0W-20 that performs really well in a very cold climate, then Mobil 1 EP, PUP, and Amsoil SS might be better choices. If you want crazy amounts of Moly then TGMO is the way to go. I wonder what kind of Moly is in M1 0W-30 Racing Oil because it has something 1650ppm of it. 😁
 
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Messages
145
Location
ct
That’s not his point.

Gokhan knows the difference between 16 & 20.

The point is that he spent the money to buy a brand-new machine that is capable of remarkable efficiency, and he wanted the latest and greatest oil that’s designed and formulated for efficiency in the car.

Furthermore, it’s a matter of professionalism and trust for a dealership to know what fluids and parts your car specifies. You should be able to trust that they’ll know, and use, what the car is spec’d to have, by the designers.

We, as consumers, shouldn’t have to catch mistakes like this from a dealership we’re paying good money to do whats supposed to be the “best” quality work on our cars.

If he wanted mistakes like this made, he would have taken it to the local Jiffy Lube or something.

Will it likely make a big difference in economy? Probably not a huge difference.

It’s the principle.

He wanted the feeling of knowing, especially as a motor oil enthusiast, that he was getting the latest and greatest 0W-16 TGMO that was formulated to allow the absolute best economy from a machine that was designed to be one of the most efficient cars on the road today.

This is exactly why Im not a fan of dealer oil changes. Maybe I just dont have enough guts but I wont stand there in the service bay and watch them change my oil. So, the only way I know what went into the engine is to read the work order. And thats just a piece of paper.

Yes, technically it should be a non-issue because if the dealer didnt use the right stuff and the engine grenaded, I would just show them their own work orders. But I dont like relying on that, nor do I like "knowingly" harming my vehicle(s).

Im sure some dealers do use what they say, but Im also sure some dont. "Whatever is in the barrel". Yeah, OK, right.....if they came to me to build da PC for them and I gave them the cheapest parts available and charged them full price to do it, would they be happy? I wouldnt expect them to, so why should I?

You can also bet that, if along the way I did 1 or 3 oil changes myself, if the engine grenaded they would claim those 1 or 3 oil changes did it....regardless of what carp they used for the other 30+ oil changes I would have paid them for.
 
Messages
476
Location
North Carolina
This is exactly why Im not a fan of dealer oil changes. Maybe I just dont have enough guts but I wont stand there in the service bay and watch them change my oil. So, the only way I know what went into the engine is to read the work order. And thats just a piece of paper.

Yes, technically it should be a non-issue because if the dealer didnt use the right stuff and the engine grenaded, I would just show them their own work orders. But I dont like relying on that, nor do I like "knowingly" harming my vehicle(s).

Im sure some dealers do use what they say, but Im also sure some dont. "Whatever is in the barrel". Yeah, OK, right.....if they came to me to build da PC for them and I gave them the cheapest parts available and charged them full price to do it, would they be happy? I wouldnt expect them to, so why should I?

You can also bet that, if along the way I did 1 or 3 oil changes myself, if the engine grenaded they would claim those 1 or 3 oil changes did it....regardless of what carp they used for the other 30+ oil changes I would have paid them for.
I asked 3 service advisors at our local Hyundai dealership what brand of oil and what viscosity they're using, and they all were like not sure, whatever Hyundai recommends. Then I asked one of the technicians, and he said 5W-20, not sure of the brand. Finally, I asked a guy there that I've known for 15 years, and he said it's 5W-30, and that's what they put in all vehicles. I asked about the brand, and he said he's got no clue what's in the barrel. But he said Hyundai allows it and pulled up an oil viscosity chart on the computer. So I guess oil is oil. :ROFLMAO: And with that, I'm doing my own oil changes at home and don't have to wonder what went into my motors. And every time I do an oil change, I update my vehicle on Carfax with actual mileage, oil, and filter purchase receipts. I never had an issue with the warranty.
 
Messages
145
Location
ct
I asked 3 service advisors at our local Hyundai dealership what brand of oil and what viscosity they're using, and they all were like not sure, whatever Hyundai recommends. Then I asked one of the technicians, and he said 5W-20, not sure of the brand. Finally, I asked a guy there that I've known for 15 years, and he said it's 5W-30, and that's what they pup in all vehicles. I asked about the brand, and he said he's got no clue what's in the barrel. But he said Hyundai allows it and pulled up an oil viscosity chart on the computer. So I guess oil is oil. :ROFLMAO: And with that, I'm doing my own oil changes at home and don't have to wonder what went into my motors. And every time I do an oil change, I update my vehicle on Carfax with actual mileage, oil, and filter purchase receipts. I never had an issue with the warranty.

Yeah its funny how if you used the "wrong" viscosity compared to the manual, theyll hold it against you.

But no one at the dealer has any idea WTF they are putting into the engines, and thats OK somehow?

I dont even bother thinking about using dealers anymore except for warranty stuff (and even that I sometimes question). I do wonder if Ill ever have an issue with records, even though my engine internals should be spotless.
 
Messages
476
Location
North Carolina
Yeah its funny how if you used the "wrong" viscosity compared to the manual, theyll hold it against you.

But no one at the dealer has any idea WTF they are putting into the engines, and thats OK somehow?

I dont even bother thinking about using dealers anymore except for warranty stuff (and even that I sometimes question). I do wonder if Ill ever have an issue with records, even though my engine internals should be spotless.
In 2013 my wife got a Hyundai Sonata SE 2.0T (fun car, within reason). It came with a scratch inside the left headlight, a manufacturing defect. Being OCD at that time (you get cured really fast when you learn that you can go from well enough to worse in a heartbeat), I asked for the headlight to be replaced under warranty. I got scheduled for the factory rep to look at it. Sure enough, he okayed it. So I get the headlight replaced, and the tiny inside scratch is gone, but now I got a bunch of scratches under the hood. It looked like "Lurch" from the "Adams Family" replaced it. Unless it's a mandatory safety recall or severe warranty issue, I don't go to the dealer or any mechanic for that matter. It's even worse when you pay for work, and it's not done right. So I absolutely agree with you.
 
Messages
17,231
Location
Upper Midwest
Though it's funny how there are many threads comparing motor oils, specs, VOAs, and UOAs, and many of us here pick motor oils based on that information because honestly, it's all we have to base our decision on. So making an exception for TGMO saying that the not-so-great point should be ignored because the actual rating is based on the winter rating is biased. The additive content might have something to do with it, probably the high Moly. Nevertheless, if you need an 0W-20 that performs really well in a very cold climate, then Mobil 1 EP, PUP, and Amsoil SS might be better choices. If you want crazy amounts of Moly then TGMO is the way to go. I wonder what kind of Moly is in M1 0W-30 Racing Oil because it has something 1650ppm of it. 😁
In the end none of those are primary indicators for oil choice nor are any of the rest of the ones you list. It's certainly not "all we have to base our decision on". What that decision should be based on are the approvals, specifications and licenses the oil holds since those are real-world indicators of oil quality. The rest are not.

Couple what I said above with a winter rating that is appropriate for your expected starting conditions and you've based your decision on something meaningful rather than on guessing. For example, are you able to predict that an oil will have better or equal oxidation resistance to one with Porsche A40 approval because of the "slug of moly", "stout add pack" or "dose of boron"?
 
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Messages
1,045
Location
South East Asia
The window sticker was printed.

32LRaA0ZERvCCXQ9TTcvMTfdo8Sf3ZhoelFDjR2238oLRLfpEzekDRZF1LIUp4chtJbXyBod-hNlrN-7Fdf7i3Hf8RVsvMRM_3GMLTVxKeBevAQYwZWlXPYHTvoW9lfuS8lgimeIyPUjX-7IbAv1FvEAzHvQQyzC8U4PTs8Pvc4cdnBq9_9EjufxWtvgBdnc3e3rSlMM-7wV3OorPHGObb5Epg3ltFGRJf4w02DOqgoLWdJG0F51J7YXCNpF_kgvkCSrr5yuA6PAQ5ojTdnj2X3SqBsKlgxlNuaQoXRiDZfwEIsUYR_IMGxogzAlXdy12UhCjYPRk_UezKlBS2Nx2Jenlg-GIZjNRvlrq6ZRyiJg8DSfx25YJrLN2lHVY19KCWSlRLUcuQlvWpvQpBad6AMqS6970GN2cBHUQeXRFxO7xIh7k9-YdcN-2MDgVY03Uud27eKewUEXsZ47XhRCr9xQlpKciaUQte0yZugIUWaUBsvQpPOUM_oR1tvyPQtT9k4JTdfi4vX5L1pO2TUpBdsRUFxNThoiM-dRjlQPPa3Uv1V2skMf6BwvG3fPcDWXfpQgM5qf8_Pb-XOiLkFvX8uxknhnCZgkOErVPLWG6JchTHycIaIOJk1pkbJbErfk35fGp1lIGXIctThu1KcJmpWLlLBOVy7Umhi1QOGGsE322vpme9nxVs9zzvFJAg=w640


I now understand the problem the dealer is having. They have this "10KSYN Service - 10,000 Mile Complimentary Service - Synthetic Oil Vehicles" code in the service request, which automatically brings up 0W-20. They don't seem to have any room for 0W-16 in their service codes.

Looking at the part number, they conveniently list it as "00279SYN," which is one number short of being identifiable as 0W-16 or 0W-20.

I really doubt the technician actually looks at the oil-filler cap.

There is no excuse for 0W-16 not being available at the Toyota dealer. It has been in use in the Camry Hybrid since 2018.
It is a common practice of many dealers to stock limited variety of bulk oil for cost reason. Not many dealers will stock 4or 5 quartz packaging for engine oil due to space constraint. It is disheartening but the other side of the coin, as long as you keep the receipt any repair problem will be solved by them, even though in your case there will be no repair problem and just lower efficiency of your mileage(which a claim that is easily deniable). If your country law support service by your own garage, then you may just do with other garage that can list detail on the work and using product as you specified.
Not a perfect solution but will remove your annoyance working with dealer that does not use product strictly recommended by manufacturer.
 
Messages
423
Location
New York Queens
So, it's been one year since my car was manufactured in August 2019, and I took it to a local Toyota dealer today for the yearly oil change with the odometer at 5,851 miles, wearing my mask of course. This would be the first oil change since the factory fill, and it's a courtesy maintenance service during the first two years.

I chose this particular dealer because it was highly rated after I had bad experiences the last couple of times I took my car to another dealer. The other dealer put a P-metric tire instead of an ISO-metric tire, forgot to put on the valve caps, and forgot to put on the coolant reservoir cap.

I looked at the service request the service advisor printed out, and it showed SAE 0W-20 instead of the officially recommended SAE 0W-16. I showed it to him, and he showed me that on his computer it's showing the correct SAE 0W-16 viscosity and the technician would go with the latter. He convinced me that what was on the paper was perhaps some generic viscosity grade.

He said it would take about two hours; so, I decided to have a three-mile walk to do some shopping at Target and Smart & Final in 90-degree humid weather, carrying a heavy bag on the way back, which wasn't actually that bad, as I badly needed some exercise and sun with our coronavirus-restricted situation here. The car was ready about 20 minutes after I returned. They also gave it a courtesy wash in their very basic car wash even though I had later declined it when I saw and rethought it. I examined the valve caps and under the hood to make sure no caps were missing this time. Then I sat in the car and looked at the sticker on the window: "0W-20."

Should anyone care about this? Of course, everyone should. It has nothing to with whether 0W-20 is OK in this car or not. It has to do with principle. When you take your car to the dealer, you expect them to follow the official recommendations, whatever they are. If they don't, then you have little reason to trust what they are doing. What was the viscosity used by the technician? Did he bother to look at the oil-filler cap? I will never know. Sometimes you wonder if they have changed the oil at all.
Trust the dealership
 
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