Toyota dealer uncertainty in the oil viscosity used

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4,559
Location
Decatur AL USA
Maybe he took the API Statement that SP GF-6B is not backwards compatible literally and that's what they sent him. So since no SN+ he had to go with 0W-20.

I'm about 99% sure API didn't mean it wasn't comparable with 0W-16 SN+ cars but it's going to cause mass confusion among the public until clarified.
 

Gokhan

Thread starter
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5,291
Location
Paramount, California
Maybe he took the API Statement that SP GF-6B is not backwards compatible literally and that's what they sent him. So since no SN+ he had to go with 0W-20.

I'm about 99% sure API didn't mean it wasn't comparable with 0W-16 SN+ cars but it's going to cause mass confusion among the public until clarified.
Are you talking about the technician looking at the bottle for SN PLUS or SP? No technician does that. Also, there is one and only one TGMO—period.

Read my last post. They used 0W-16 but the sticker was wrong because they didn't update their sticker printer or it was done in a hurry. The service manager was fully aware of which car used 0W-16, including mine, and he told me that they used bottled 0W-16 when the car specced 0W-16. The parts department send the service bay the oil, oil filter, and oil drain plug gasket automatically according to the computer, and his computer showed 0W-16 sold by the parts department in my case.

The bottle doesn't even have SN PLUS. The revision number (formulation code) is 6378. It will be interesting to see if the SP/GF-6B formulation will be different, which can be told from the revision number. The same revision number would mean no formulation change.



For those who are interested, here is the official Toyota dealer oil poster for the service bays.

 
Messages
4,559
Location
Decatur AL USA
Are you talking about the technician looking at the bottle for SN PLUS or SP? No technician does that. Also, there is one and only one TGMO—period.

Read my last post. They used 0W-16 but the sticker was wrong because they didn't update their sticker printer or it was done in a hurry. The service manager was fully aware of which car used 0W-16, including mine, and he told me that they used bottled 0W-16 when the car specced 0W-16. The parts department send the service bay the oil, oil filter, and oil drain plug gasket automatically according to the computer, and his computer showed 0W-16 sold by the parts department in my case.

The bottle doesn't even have SN PLUS. The revision number (formulation code) is 6378. It will be interesting to see if the SP/GF-6B formulation will be different, which can be told from the revision number. The same revision number would mean no formulation change.



For those who are interested, here is the official Toyota dealer oil poster for the service bays.

I was making the point that the API statement says GF-6B is not backwards compatible. I'm sure it's a poorly worded statement only meant to apply to cars that speced 0W-20 and not 0W-16 (Pre-GF-6B) but that's what it says.

Since Toyota is part of ILSAC I look for them to have GF-6B on that oil shortly.

Since Toyota dealers don't always use Toyota oil I hadn't really thought about whether it was TGMO.
 

Gokhan

Thread starter
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5,291
Location
Paramount, California
That's interesting. SP version probably has a lot of Group V AN and/or POE as the missing 20% in the MSDS for the base oil. I know TGMO 0W-20 SN by ExxonMobil used a lot of POE in the past. ExxonMobil uses AN in its non-FS and non-ESP Mobil 1 oils, and it uses POE in its FS and ESP Mobil 1 oils.

TGMO 0W-16 SN ExxonMobil

Name CAS# Concentration* GHS Hazard Code

Benzenamine, AR-nonyl-N-(nonylphenyl)- 36878-20-3 1-<5% H413
Long-chain calcium calcium salicylate Trade secret 1-<5% H316, H317, H413
Heavy Distillate (C-18-50)-Branched, Cyclic, Linear (GTL) 848301-69-9 70-<80% H304
Polyolefin Polyamine Succinimide 147880-09-9 1-<5% H413
Polyolefin Polyamine Succinimide Trade secret 1-<5% H413
Zinc bis(2-ethylhexyl) dithiophosphate 4259-15-8 0.1-<1% H318, H401, H411

TGMO 0W-16 SP ExxonMobil

Name CAS# Concentration* GHS Hazard Code

Alkylene aromatic amine 36878-20-3 1-<5% H413
Di[alkyl (C=14-18)-2-hydroxybenzoic acid] mosquito Lucium salt 114959-46-5 0.1-<1% H317
Benzoic acid, 2-hydroxy, mono(C>13) alkyl derivative calcium salt (2:1) 83846-43-9 0.1-<1% H317
Polyolefin amide Alkyleneamine borate 134758-95-5 1-<5% None
Highly hydrogenated heavy paraffinic oil distillate 64742-54-7 50-<60% H304
What is the missing 20%? Group V AN and/or POE?
Alkyl dithiophosphate zinc 68784-31-6 1-<2.5% H318, H401, H411

LGMO 0W-16 SN Idemitsu Kosan

Mixture Chemical name or generic name Concentration or concentration range (% w/w) Chemical Substances Control Law

Clay processing mineral oil >= 0.1-<1
Hydrogenated medium viscosity paraffin >= 80-<90
Hydrogenated low viscosity paraffin >= 1-<10
Solvent refined paraffin oil >= 1-<10
Molybdendi-2-ethylhexyl dithiocarbamate >= 0.1-<1
Ester oil <1
Lubricant additive <10

LGMO 0W-16 SP Idemitsu Kosan

Mixture Chemical name or generic name Concentration or concentration range (% w/w) Chemical Substances Control Law

Hydrogenated medium viscosity paraffin >= 80-<90
Hydrogenated low viscosity paraffin >= 1-<10
Solvent refined paraffin oil >= 1-<10
Molybdendi-2-ethylhexyl dithiocarbamate >= 0.25-<1
Hydrogenated light naphthene >= 0.1-<1
Ester oil <1
Lubricant additive <10

It is also interesting that Toyota Japan uses ExxonMobil TGMO (Toyota Genuine Motor Oil), whereas Lexus Japan uses Idemitsu Kosan LGMO (Lexus Genuine Motor Oil).

That 0.25–1% moly compound in the Idemitsu Kosan LGMO 0W-16 SP corresponds to a 2,500–10,000 ppm moly compound. Net (elemental) molybdenum (Mo) contribution is about 15% of the non-mineral-oil-added compound; so, that corresponds to 375–1,500 ppm of molybdenum. Therefore, ~ 900 ppm is probably the actual Mo amount. Japanese OEM's are big believers in high moly.
 
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Messages
167
Location
Arizona
They should be. At my Kia dealer we always put 0w-20 in the Kia Niros and 0w-30 in the I4 Turbo Kia Stingers. We usually use Total, or the fancy bottled Lexus oil from next door depending on what's available.
 
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12,670
Location
Middlesex County CT
When I bought my prius from my father, he handed me a stack of maintenance records, all done @ the dealer.

Many of the OC were labeled "bulk oil, 10W-30"

It is not clear why a Toyota dealer would even stock that
 

Gokhan

Thread starter
Messages
5,291
Location
Paramount, California
When I bought my prius from my father, he handed me a stack of maintenance records, all done @ the dealer.

Many of the OC were labeled "bulk oil, 10W-30"

It is not clear why a Toyota dealer would even stock that
TGMO is available in 0W-16, 0W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, and 10W-40. Gen 2 Prius specs 5W-30. Toyota dealers can use a thicker oil to combat oil consumption.

 
Messages
645
Location
PA
I just called the service manager at this dealer. He assured me that they used 0W-16. He said he just looked at the parts number on the computer and saw that the parts department sent them the 0W-16 oil. I also asked them whether they have 0W-16 in bulk (can we also call it draft?) or bottle, and he said it's only in bottle. He said the sticker is incorrect because they did it in a rush and their system is not updated. He said they can put the correct sticker if I bring my car back.

I will take his word and later find out if I notice a 0.3% drop in my fuel economy or not.* ;)

*Official fuel-economy limits for SAE 0W-20 GF-6A are 3.8% and 1.8% minimum improvement over SAE 20W-30 fully formulated reference oil for new and used oil (125 hours), respectively, and for SAE 0W-16 GF-6B they are 4.1% and 1.9%. GF6-A and GF6-B use ASTM Sequence VIE and Sequence VIF, respectively; therefore, I am not sure how fair it is to directly compare the numbers.

If u need to sleep better at night, I would do an oil analysis and determine what he says confirms what was installed.

I would even during the conversation be passive aggressive and mention the possibility of doing an oil analysis. That will determine his overall confidence level.
 
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3,273
Location
Outer Banks, NC
The OP has just explained another reason that "free or complimentary" oil changes are no bargain. Some dealers may not want to have 4 tanks of bulk oil: 0w-16, 0w-20, 5w-20 and 5w-30. I know the principle involved, but unless I lived in the Sierra Nevadas, I would't really give a hoot if my new Toyota in California received 0w-20. Now Gokhan may only get 69 mpg now instead of 70.
 
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Messages
25,889
Location
PNW
Maybe he took the API Statement that SP GF-6B is not backwards compatible literally and that's what they sent him. So since no SN+ he had to go with 0W-20.

I'm about 99% sure API didn't mean it wasn't comparable with 0W-16 SN+ cars but it's going to cause mass confusion among the public until clarified.

As shown in the other thread, info on the API website makes it clear the 0W-16 GF-6B is a substitue for 0W-16 API SN/SN+.
 
Messages
25,889
Location
PNW
I was making the point that the API statement says GF-6B is not backwards compatible. I'm sure it's a poorly worded statement only meant to apply to cars that speced 0W-20 and not 0W-16 (Pre-GF-6B) but that's what it says.


The API website clearly states 0W-16 GF-6B is a substitute for SN/SN+.


"Licensed oils that meet the ILSAC GF-6A standard will be allowed to display the API Certification Mark “Starburst” and may be used where oils meeting GF-5 or earlier gasoline engine oil standards had been recommended. Oils that meet ILSAC GF-6B will be allowed to display a new mark, the API Certification Mark “Shield,” and may be used where SAE 0W-16 oils meeting API SN had been recommended. API is introducing this new “Shield” at the request of automakers to prevent confusion and ensure that 0W-16 oils are used only in applications where they are recommended."
 
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4,559
Location
Decatur AL USA
The API website clearly states 0W-16 GF-6B is a substitute for SN/SN+.


"Licensed oils that meet the ILSAC GF-6A standard will be allowed to display the API Certification Mark “Starburst” and may be used where oils meeting GF-5 or earlier gasoline engine oil standards had been recommended. Oils that meet ILSAC GF-6B will be allowed to display a new mark, the API Certification Mark “Shield,” and may be used where SAE 0W-16 oils meeting API SN had been recommended. API is introducing this new “Shield” at the request of automakers to prevent confusion and ensure that 0W-16 oils are used only in applications where they are recommended."


We covered that on another post.

I still think releasing a statement that said it wasn't backwards compatible because of "composition" was not the smartest thing. If you meant viscosity just say it.
 
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25,889
Location
PNW
We covered that on another post.

I still think releasing a statement that said it wasn't backwards compatible because of "composition" was not the smartest thing. If you meant viscosity just say it.

Who released a statement that it wasn't backwards compatible because of "composition"?

Of course I meant viscosity as mentioned many times in the other thread which you were in. It's very clear per the API that GF-6B is a direct replacement for the old 0W-16 SN/SN+. It would be totally confusing and ludicrous if some new composition/formulated 0W-16 couldn't be used in older engines specifying 0W-16.
 
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Messages
2,034
Location
WA
If the dealer was any smarter, they would have used10W30 in the heat of CA but I know you are a thinie. :)

So their printer can't print 0W16 but it can print 0W20? What kind of printer is that? can it print my paychecks?

You should have asked them to show you the barrel of 0W16 and also made sure they shake it.
 
Messages
635
Location
EU
SP version probably has a lot of Group V AN and/or POE as the missing 20% in the MSDS for the base oil. I know TGMO 0W-20 SN by ExxonMobil used a lot of POE in the past. ExxonMobil uses AN in its non-FS and non-ESP Mobil 1 oils, and it uses POE in its FS and ESP Mobil 1 oils.

Most probably GTL or PAO. Looks like the new Mobil Super Synthetic.


The Gazoo extreme VI oils seem to be related to ENEOS X Prime (Sustina will be gone)

 
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