Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
Terry Dyson is the Man
- Thread starter StevieC
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Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
I'm curious what he's talking about - somebody gimme a link, please?
Which topic do you mean? The broken link on the Dyson Analysis (dot com) home page? The fact that he's banned from BITOG now? The fact that he 'called a spade a spade?' Which?
Terry is not banned.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
I'm curious what he's talking about - somebody gimme a link, please?
Which topic do you mean? The broken link on the Dyson Analysis (dot com) home page? The fact that he's banned from BITOG now? The fact that he 'called a spade a spade?' Which?
Terry is not banned.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Here's a usefull tidbit of the one RLI product Terry did help to develop, and it shows merit.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
+1
So if things haven't been the same, what can we as a community of people do to make things better. Or to put it a different way, what can we do to take things back to they were in the old days?
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
+1
So if things haven't been the same, what can we as a community of people do to make things better. Or to put it a different way, what can we do to take things back to they were in the old days?
Originally Posted By: The Critic
....any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
That's just bogus. I agree that the opinions fly fast and free on BITOG, but it's the web. But to say when someone has facts they are not welcomed is just not true.
....any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
That's just bogus. I agree that the opinions fly fast and free on BITOG, but it's the web. But to say when someone has facts they are not welcomed is just not true.
We need to be vigilant and challenge and report non fact base postings. Opinions are fine when they are qualified as opinions but we need to enforce the line between personal preferences/opinions and quatifiable or qualified facts.
This was of course easier and more peer reviewed when the trafic was less. With so many post and categories it is easy for bad or non factual posts and threads to stand.
We have lost many subject manner experts here because of the noise. We need to apply the peer pressure and challenge posts that are not properly qualified.
At some point site traffic and quantity became more importantthan quality of the post. We have been commercialized.
This was of course easier and more peer reviewed when the trafic was less. With so many post and categories it is easy for bad or non factual posts and threads to stand.
We have lost many subject manner experts here because of the noise. We need to apply the peer pressure and challenge posts that are not properly qualified.
At some point site traffic and quantity became more importantthan quality of the post. We have been commercialized.
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Well, try and keep it in perspective, StevieC. There are going to be disagreements between people from time to time. When they aren't reconcilable, you move on. It's can appear ......hmmmm..."unfair" ..but it's not a democracy. How can I communicate this well
Example: When I was in human services ..or running a seasonal homeless shelter, when a dispute arises in any form, the important thing is that there is no disruption to the calmness and orderly nature of the environment. That's pretty much a good policy in the general criteria to ban someone. If you're going to be a squeaking wheel, make the tune pleasant or at least entertaining. That's if you value your access to it.
In Terry's case (my understanding), Terry couldn't come to terms with certain conditions here ..and moved on. Helen is running a commercial enterprise. I imagine (I do not know) that the sponsors.. maybe... pay the bills ..and the individual contributions may be worth the time to run/monitor/manage the site. She has to make decisions based on what she feels is in the board's and her best interest. That self interest came in conflict with Terry's. The two enterprises parted company ..and that's about it.
I mean, we could add drama if there's some need for it
In Terry's case (my understanding), Terry couldn't come to terms with certain conditions here ..and moved on. Helen is running a commercial enterprise. I imagine (I do not know) that the sponsors.. maybe... pay the bills ..and the individual contributions may be worth the time to run/monitor/manage the site. She has to make decisions based on what she feels is in the board's and her best interest. That self interest came in conflict with Terry's. The two enterprises parted company ..and that's about it.
I mean, we could add drama if there's some need for it
Your descriptions of how this site works are always kinda funny Gary (no offense intended), you make it sound like the BITOG Matrix. We are the batteries that power the bitog machine and any attempt to disturb our reality will be eliminated...
"There is no spoon."
I'm not trying to cause drama and this post isn't meant to be anything other than funny.
"There is no spoon."
I'm not trying to cause drama and this post isn't meant to be anything other than funny.
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- 39,798
he-he ..it maybe funny ..but it's the same for a public school or ..for that matter, any work place. Even if the student or employee has a valid gripe, you can't just have people going off disrupting things in their own version of whatever. You just don't need the static when there's no reason to put up with it.
A person may be mature and sensible ..but people are children (note XS650's "designated adult" reference
). Group dynamics makes an interesting undisciplined study in how one contains unfavorable behaviors. I think one of Maxwell's theories on thermal dynamics applies here (paraphrased) ..anything not maintained ..will decay.
A person may be mature and sensible ..but people are children (note XS650's "designated adult" reference
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Quote:
We need to be vigilant and challenge and report non fact base postings. Opinions are fine when they are qualified as opinions but we need to enforce the line between personal preferences/opinions and quatifiable or qualified facts.
Very difficult when the majority of members show the marketing is working. (even when they have no facts to prove their point)
Take care, Bill
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Stevie..things have't been the same for a while.
+1
I miss the original BITOG. This site has transitioned into a place where statements are made without any supporting evidence. I constantly see bad advice being given and any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Quote:
We need to be vigilant and challenge and report non fact base postings. Opinions are fine when they are qualified as opinions but we need to enforce the line between personal preferences/opinions and quatifiable or qualified facts.
Very difficult when the majority of members show the marketing is working. (even when they have no facts to prove their point)
Take care, Bill
Quote:
...any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Can I please have some evidence of this. Two or three threads would be nice.
The only thing that comes to mind is when someone mentions ARx didn't work as advertised - typically they are put through the meat grinder.
...any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Can I please have some evidence of this. Two or three threads would be nice.
The only thing that comes to mind is when someone mentions ARx didn't work as advertised - typically they are put through the meat grinder.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
AMZOIL works as good AMSOILE or AMSOIL. Bwee-hee-hee.
Quote:
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Marketing? Facts? Like any other site, there will always be both. So what?
None of us have the $, knowledge or equipment to conduct true scientific tests in search of "facts". UOA's are the closet things to facts we have on here. Everything else is subjective and not very scientific such as my engine makes more noise with oil A vs oil B etc.
My brother and I have used Mobil 1 and Amsoil products for over 500,000 miles worth of driving collectively and never used LC. That is a fact.
Looks like some ignored the "facts" and ran LC anyway.
Terry is a great guy. He will give you his honest opinion at all times based on the data he has available to him.
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Marketing? Facts? Like any other site, there will always be both. So what?
None of us have the $, knowledge or equipment to conduct true scientific tests in search of "facts". UOA's are the closet things to facts we have on here. Everything else is subjective and not very scientific such as my engine makes more noise with oil A vs oil B etc.
My brother and I have used Mobil 1 and Amsoil products for over 500,000 miles worth of driving collectively and never used LC. That is a fact.
Looks like some ignored the "facts" and ran LC anyway.
Terry is a great guy. He will give you his honest opinion at all times based on the data he has available to him.
From the time I joined here until today there have been a ton of changes, some good & some not so good. As an early member I got very used to talking to Bob and others on a regular basis....things were well, more factual it seems back then. Now I see much more of "my engine loves XYZ oil" which means zilch, zip, nada.
Seeing that Terry had posted something was one of the highlights of coming here and I miss those highlights as I miss his input here.
Johnny, thanks for putting us back in touch with Terry through your posting and communication with him. Next time you yak with him you can honestly say that some of the "senior" (in more ways than one) members do miss him. Member #407
Seeing that Terry had posted something was one of the highlights of coming here and I miss those highlights as I miss his input here.
Johnny, thanks for putting us back in touch with Terry through your posting and communication with him. Next time you yak with him you can honestly say that some of the "senior" (in more ways than one) members do miss him. Member #407
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,798
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
...any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Can I please have some evidence of this. Two or three threads would be nice.
I've got to agree with Bill (although I think that he would include me in opposing "his" factual presentations). Many of the heavy weights around here have moved on or are tired. Tired of the 359th time of corrective posting. Even the lower dwellers that know the proper rhetoric but don't have the full grasp just don't bother any more. I see it in the filter section ..a new "truth" is being introduced and evidence to the contrary is bypassed and/or ignored for neo-collective dogma.
I think that the veterans initially look at it as "they'll get over it. I was their age once
" ..but they're not growing up ...they're taking over. It hasn't gotten too far out there, so far ..I mean it's not like we're heading toward M1 forming lapping paste if you use it after an engine has had a diet of conventional for too long .....
..but ..that's the way it goes..
Quote:
...any attempt to present an alternative, factually-supported point-of-view is not welcomed.
Can I please have some evidence of this. Two or three threads would be nice.
I've got to agree with Bill (although I think that he would include me in opposing "his" factual presentations). Many of the heavy weights around here have moved on or are tired. Tired of the 359th time of corrective posting. Even the lower dwellers that know the proper rhetoric but don't have the full grasp just don't bother any more. I see it in the filter section ..a new "truth" is being introduced and evidence to the contrary is bypassed and/or ignored for neo-collective dogma.
I think that the veterans initially look at it as "they'll get over it. I was their age once
..but ..that's the way it goes..
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Marketing? Facts? Like any other site, there will always be both. So what?
None of us have the $, knowledge or equipment to conduct true scientific tests in search of "facts". UOA's are the closet things to facts we have on here. Everything else is subjective and not very scientific such as my engine makes more noise with oil A vs oil B etc.
My brother and I have used Mobil 1 and Amsoil products for over 500,000 miles worth of driving collectively and never used LC. That is a fact.
Looks like some ignored the "facts" and ran LC anyway.
Terry is a great guy. He will give you his honest opinion at all times based on the data he has available to him.
==============================================================
Typical BITOG thread:
JIMBOB: I've had great luck with Zipoil 5w50.
BOBBOY: Based on what evidence?
JIMBOB: My car has 300,000 plus miles with no rebuild.
BOBBOY: Any oil could do that.
TOOKIT: Well I personally don't like Zipoil. It sludged up in my engine. I had leaking seals and I went back to PooOil.
JIMBOB: That's impossible! You need to show me before and after photos plus seven concurrent UOA's. If the UOA's show me that it was indeed a bad oil, then I'm going to blame the Lab that did the work for not supporting my own feelings toward Zipoil.
GOODDOOP: Don't forget to run some ARX!
================================================================
So it seems to me like if someone expresses a like or a dislike for a certain oil, and he has no evidence to support his theory except for personal observation, then his eyewitness account has no merit over someone else's same observation. That's the way it should be.
If someone links to a UOA regarding said oil, it also should have no merit on the oil itself as there are too many variables at play to form a definite conclusion on the oil itself.
If someone says "run Zipoil syn blend for 10,000 miles, it's up to task" well, that's an opinion. But I welcome any data supporting evidence for it, and I'd like to be able to draw my own conclusion. But I think that if you only limit oil discussion to hard data-based pseudo-scientific photo evidence and uneven UOA analysis, then it would limit the number of threads to a small handful. BITOG would cease relevance, and the world would be a colder place.
Quote:
I agree with you. The person coming here gets a major point of view that shows the marketing is working.
Also a lot of one line postings "xxx is the best". And when you call out the one line posters (who have NEVER done anything else, done a UOA, trade in their low mileage cars so they never get any miles on the cars) just keep up with their lines.
I've used Terry quite a bit. (his services saved me $1200 plus on a out of warranty engine problem. With his help, we got the MFG to repair their engine 24k miles past the 36k miles)
Terry liked the LC20 stuff and said that Mobil 1 really needs it every 1k miles no matter how long you run it. Its too bad he left. I can not afford his services anymore. (it used to be $10 over the UOA)
While I don't run LC20 anymore (still have 1/2 a gallon left) or FP since my engines don't need it.
After being here quite a long time, its interesting to scroll through the member list and see that their are TONS of people who have NEVER left a post and quite a bit who have left.
I wonder what percentage of members who post and read regularly?
Marketing? Facts? Like any other site, there will always be both. So what?
None of us have the $, knowledge or equipment to conduct true scientific tests in search of "facts". UOA's are the closet things to facts we have on here. Everything else is subjective and not very scientific such as my engine makes more noise with oil A vs oil B etc.
My brother and I have used Mobil 1 and Amsoil products for over 500,000 miles worth of driving collectively and never used LC. That is a fact.
Looks like some ignored the "facts" and ran LC anyway.
Terry is a great guy. He will give you his honest opinion at all times based on the data he has available to him.
==============================================================
Typical BITOG thread:
JIMBOB: I've had great luck with Zipoil 5w50.
BOBBOY: Based on what evidence?
JIMBOB: My car has 300,000 plus miles with no rebuild.
BOBBOY: Any oil could do that.
TOOKIT: Well I personally don't like Zipoil. It sludged up in my engine. I had leaking seals and I went back to PooOil.
JIMBOB: That's impossible! You need to show me before and after photos plus seven concurrent UOA's. If the UOA's show me that it was indeed a bad oil, then I'm going to blame the Lab that did the work for not supporting my own feelings toward Zipoil.
GOODDOOP: Don't forget to run some ARX!
================================================================
So it seems to me like if someone expresses a like or a dislike for a certain oil, and he has no evidence to support his theory except for personal observation, then his eyewitness account has no merit over someone else's same observation. That's the way it should be.
If someone links to a UOA regarding said oil, it also should have no merit on the oil itself as there are too many variables at play to form a definite conclusion on the oil itself.
If someone says "run Zipoil syn blend for 10,000 miles, it's up to task" well, that's an opinion. But I welcome any data supporting evidence for it, and I'd like to be able to draw my own conclusion. But I think that if you only limit oil discussion to hard data-based pseudo-scientific photo evidence and uneven UOA analysis, then it would limit the number of threads to a small handful. BITOG would cease relevance, and the world would be a colder place.
kingrob, excellent post.
Originally Posted By: XS650
Terry is not banned.
Hmm. I guess I misunderstood his statement that
Quote:
A website I helped found blocks me because I did...
which I've heard from him before. Nevertheless, I'm not a moderator here, so if the official position of this website is that Terry is not banned, then I retract my question which prompted the response, and thank you for clarifying the website's position.
Terry is not banned.
Hmm. I guess I misunderstood his statement that
Quote:
A website I helped found blocks me because I did...
which I've heard from him before. Nevertheless, I'm not a moderator here, so if the official position of this website is that Terry is not banned, then I retract my question which prompted the response, and thank you for clarifying the website's position.
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