But if it came from the steel parts of the engine, wouldn't we see more iron, or even glitter in the oil or filter? after all only between 1 and 13% of the steel is manganese. so 7ppm manganese and 100ppm iron wouldn't be a surprise.
LSJr. The TRUTH About Valvoline's BOLD Engine Cleaning Claims
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But if it came from the steel parts of the engine, wouldn't we see more iron, or even glitter in the oil or filter? after all only between 1 and 13% of the steel is manganese. so 7ppm manganese and 100ppm iron wouldn't be a surprise.
Saying it is proof of anything is ridiculous.
Was the manganese level of the fuel checked before and after?
Was the testing of the manganese level in the oil samples double checked, before and after?
I’m thinking no.
Was the manganese level of the fuel checked before and after?
Was the testing of the manganese level in the oil samples double checked, before and after?
I’m thinking no.
MolaKule
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And was it one data point or many?
There is a lot less oil up there at piston top. Like anything when cleaning, clothes etc.. it takes a large amount of liquid to saturate, soak and clean out dirt. So that does not surprise me the piston picture.
I’m moving, selling my house because my well is contaminated with manganese. I’m constantly bleaching the well, cleaning out screens in every bathroom, replacing washing machines. It’s a
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
Dig a new well or just drop some chlorine tabs down every few weeks. My neighbors on both sides have sulphur and we hit clean water the 1st time. We drilled a well for a couple of cabins I’m building only 50 yds away and wouldn’t you know it…sulphur! The chlorine tabs are maintenance and you don’t need to do the whole “shocking” procedure.I’m moving, selling my house because my well is contaminated with manganese. I’m constantly bleaching the well, cleaning out screens in every bathroom, replacing washing machines. It’s a
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
Since this has digressed. Not sure how much help this is, but this sounds like a total organic carbon problem. Naturally occurring bacteria have enough food to consume all the available oxygen in the aquifer you're tapped into. Once the dissolved oxygen is gone, they go looking for other sources like nitrate, sulfate, iron oxide, and manganese oxide. This leads to fixed iron and manganese becoming dissolved forms. Then they form scales when oxidized again, eg. your black residues.I’m moving, selling my house because my well is contaminated with manganese. I’m constantly bleaching the well, cleaning out screens in every bathroom, replacing washing machines. It’s a
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
Or any vehicle cursed with a Hyundai GDI engine
And give any engine that it's used in the power of a Hellcat Hemi !They’re not impressed because Mobil 1 can clean up spun bearings and fix bent push rods.
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Yup, went through the same thing. Same thing with the screens on the faucets (boy that brings back memories). And the water holding tank on the toilets always had this black buildup on the ceramic. It was disgusting, and the water smelled like rotten eggs. Did eventually move, not really because of all that but I do not mis any of it.I’m moving, selling my house because my well is contaminated with manganese. I’m constantly bleaching the well, cleaning out screens in every bathroom, replacing washing machines. It’s a
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
If only Restore and Protect was around back then
But I must say this oil does intrigue me a little bit, mostly for the price and availability, but like others have said…this is not the only oil that can remove a little bit of varnish. And I will say that even running 10,000 mile intervals for four years on my own car, there doesn’t appear to be any varnish visible on my engine using Mobil1, Pennzoil and older versions of Valvoline synthetics (along with Castrol). Even a few Super Tech 5,000-6,000 mile intervals.
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They have filters to remove thatI’m moving, selling my house because my well is contaminated with manganese. I’m constantly bleaching the well, cleaning out screens in every bathroom, replacing washing machines. It’s a
a constant battle removing black soot that looks like coal when it hardens. Not sure how that would get in an engine unless somebody was using my well water in their radiator
Sorry for digressing this thread, but just the word manganese triggers me. I can’t imagine what purpose it would have in motor oil or in the engine. Chlorine oxidizes manganese, turning it into solid mass. Gritty abrasive chunks of black coal. If I was to drop a tab of chlorine down my well, I would instantly clog every pipe in the house. The only method I have come up with to keep the water flowing is to pour 3 gallons of chlorine into the well, run the water for 10 minutes to get the chlorine closer to the pump and the well opening. Shut off all the water to the house and using external water pump flood the well with an additional 150 gallons of stored water to push the chlorine out through the screened opening and into the surrounding ground. Go to bed. Wake up at 3 AM and start running the water out into the woods. Flush the house a couple of times. 5 hours after pumping the well dry several times it’s OK for showering and safe for the septic tank bacteria.Then for the next several days, clean screens.
I do this every six months. It’s no way to live and it’s only getting worse. I can’t afford to spend another 50–100 K drilling a well. There is water down there. My next-door neighbor hit the Poland Springs aquifer. He has an unlimited supply of crystal clear water. But I’m getting older and I need utilities. And warm weather lol
Sorry just getting caught up on this thread, but the varnish-vs-UOA question is a fascinating one.
If the engine is varnished but is clean on all the *functional* surfaces, does it matter? Is there any test for ACEA or API or ILSAC that address varnishing on non-functional surfaces? It seems to me that there are deposits that matter and deposits that don't. Lots of whales live quite long and happy lives completely encrusted with barnacles.
As I've posted, the J35 in my 2005 Odyssey had become very heavily varnished over years of using entry-level oils like PP with the VCM still active and changing by OLM.
But if compression is good, oil consumption is very low and all other indicators are fine, does the varnish matter?
I don't know. I don't like varnish. I like that VRP is removing it. But if it wasn't removed, I can't say it would amount to much that I can measure. It just looks bad and nothing more.
And I have no idea how a UOA could flag varnish or not varnishing. It seems by nature that the oil you are sampling was that which didn't react to form varnish, so how could UOA ever flag varnishing tendency?
Your right, plenty of varnished high mileage engines running just fine. I think it’s more of a case by case basis if varnish causes problems like sticky hydraulic lifters, vvt solenoids etc. IMO varnish is just one measure that the oil was not up to the task.
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He has some good content, but its very incomplete. He takes one data point and runs away with it. I am not saying the one data point is false or invalid, but its disingeneous to make some of the conclusions he comes to. Don't matter though, if he gets the clicks he wants thats all that matters to him.
I’ve noticed his videos are not quite as long anymore
Casual observation only
Casual observation only
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UOA won't tell you about varnish, and that's a problem IMHO.
The thing with varnish is what it is: a precipitate; contaminants that fall out of suspension because the additive package is no longer able to keep them in suspension (the detergents and dispersants, whose role is to prevent agglomeration of suspended contaminants and keep them in suspension, are overwhelmed). Varnish most readily accrues in areas of low flow, though lower temperatures (valve covers for example) are also prime targets. The ring pack has a low rate of flow through it, so an oil that is already fully saturated with contaminants is going to be far less resistant to coking and leaving deposits in the ring land area, primarily the oil control rings.
Back in the early 2000's a buddy of mine had a pretty heavily varnished 302 that we tore down to rebuild. It was running one of the stock heads from my engine because it broke a valve spring and burned a valve on nitrous at the track one night. My engine had a better maintenance history (I had been running M1 in it) and the heads were spotless. So he had one super clean head and one that was varnish city when we tore it down, lol.
We knew his engine was tired, as he had to run 20W-50 in it to keep normal oil pressure (GTX 20W-50). We expected the bearings to not look great and we were on the money, they were all to the copper.
However, what surprised me was that all of the rings were sticky, with the oil control rings basically glued into their lands with varnish. The compression rings moved, though not all that freely, and the engine still had decent compression, but the oil control rings were not functioning properly, if it all.
So, my concern with varnish is that if you have it where you can see it, the odds are incredibly high that you also have it where you can't. Some engines are going to be considerably more tolerant of this than others, like that old 302, while others are going to drink oil or manifest the impact in other ways.
Varnish is never *good*, but in some applications its impact may not be readily quantified, as operation doesn't seem obviously impacted by its presence.
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Agree with this 100%. It's not what you can see that's the problem-- it's that the parts you cannot see are almost certainly worse. What are the chances an engine with heavily varnished overhead has perfectly clean rings? Probably pretty slim.
I think to some extent my J35 was experiencing that-- the base engine wasn't as bad as the overhead. But based on what I'm seeing VRP, I'd swear the VRP is having some major effect on the bottom end that I cannot see in addition to the observed cleaning effect that I *can* see on the rocker arms and such up top.
I think a takeaway from me is that no Honda J35 (heck, maybe no Honda period) should do ODIs by the OLM unless you are using one heck of an oil like HPL. The common stuff in the wal mart aisle-- PP, QSFS, and base level all-group-III-stuff simply cannot go the full OLM. Honda's definition of "end of oil life" is not sufficient to keep the engine clean even with synthetics ostensibly better than group 2 blends.
I'm recalling the earlier post of the 2.0T Honda torn down and how it looked immaculate inside-- except the oil rings were glued in place. No varnish at all anywhere visible.
Makes one think.
At Y.T. enter MidwestF150 where you'll find videos of oil analyses ( U.O.A. , V.O.A. ) , oil filter openings ( new + used ) and other things of interest . Many are new videos of R&P , P.U.P. , MicroGard oil filters , HONDA oil filter , Purolator , Wix (?) , etc.. There's also emails with VALVOLINE about Restore + Protect .
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