Bachelors - Pressure for marriage

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
javacontour,

Did your ex wife ever find 'happiness' in her 2nd marriage ?




She never remarried. I never kept track of her and her affair partner. She has some guy living with her. He has no car and his job seems sketchy.

I am glad my daughter is spending more time in my home.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
1st of all you are putting words in my mouth. I never said all women were bad or that no one should ever get married. I advise caution to men getting married these days because of how easy it is for a woman to take him to the cleaners and ruin his life. The modern day woman is NOT the same creature she was just 10-15 years back. Also, the legal system is 100% stacked AGAINST the man. If you think those two comments are ridiculous then you are very sheltered from the harsh realities of today's world.

How many people out of those millions do you know? How many do you know that have been divorced? Just how big a sample size am I to have to form an opinion? What I have seen, personally, clearly backs up my comments. What I have said is echoed by others on here as well. So they too are ridiculous?

You seem very naive about divorce to me. I don't mean that as an insult either. Just an observation. Either that or because you haven't seen it happen you can't or won't believe those who have.

You and a few others in this thread should really take some time and go visit some of the websites out there that teach women how to find the right guy to marry so they can take him for everything. Or the ones that teach the woman how to go about the divorce( lie and falsely accuse )to score big. Then come back and call me ridiculous again. These websites are a modern day thing not something people who have been married 20+ years would have had to worry about. My warnings and others are for people not yet married, who will marry a young modern woman. Half of you guys yelling at me are doing so without the foundation/experience for it.

You believe what you wish. I truly hope you don't wake up someday and finds your wife has decided to move on and take everything you own with her while at the same time accusing you of horrible things you didn't do so it is easier for her to get it all. If that happens I hope you can afford the dream team for lawyers because you will need it.

I am not going to keep going round and round with you on this. I have a right to my opinion and it is not limited nor ridiculous. It is genuine and real.

I am NOT anti marriage
I am NOT anti woman

I AM cautious
I AM smart enough to learn from what I see


You do have a right to your opinion. But again.... you're making claims and the best you can do is back them up is point to the existence of a few web sites and a handful of people you know. Telling people that they need to do research and that they don't have enough experience to know what you know is not enough to convince anybody of anything.

Keep telling yourself you're smart. You'll get far in life.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
LazyPrizm nailed it. What you're saying is exactly like talking to 30 victims of spousal abuse and concluding that all men hit their wives. It's kind of ridiculous.
BUT, would it be fair to say that when it comes to spousal abuse women are more likely to be abused than men based upon the situation you presented?

Actually no. More men are hospitalized than women due to injuries inflicted by a lover or spouse.

Women report more. Men are hospitalized more.

My ex wife hit me. I was 5'11" and over 250# so it wasn't like my life was in danger. Still the police did nothing when I reported it.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
1st of all you are putting words in my mouth. I never said all women were bad or that no one should ever get married. I advise caution to men getting married these days because of how easy it is for a woman to take him to the cleaners and ruin his life. The modern day woman is NOT the same creature she was just 10-15 years back. Also, the legal system is 100% stacked AGAINST the man. If you think those two comments are ridiculous then you are very sheltered from the harsh realities of today's world.

How many people out of those millions do you know? How many do you know that have been divorced? Just how big a sample size am I to have to form an opinion? What I have seen, personally, clearly backs up my comments. What I have said is echoed by others on here as well. So they too are ridiculous?

You seem very naive about divorce to me. I don't mean that as an insult either. Just an observation. Either that or because you haven't seen it happen you can't or won't believe those who have.

You and a few others in this thread should really take some time and go visit some of the websites out there that teach women how to find the right guy to marry so they can take him for everything. Or the ones that teach the woman how to go about the divorce( lie and falsely accuse )to score big. Then come back and call me ridiculous again. These websites are a modern day thing not something people who have been married 20+ years would have had to worry about. My warnings and others are for people not yet married, who will marry a young modern woman. Half of you guys yelling at me are doing so without the foundation/experience for it.

You believe what you wish. I truly hope you don't wake up someday and finds your wife has decided to move on and take everything you own with her while at the same time accusing you of horrible things you didn't do so it is easier for her to get it all. If that happens I hope you can afford the dream team for lawyers because you will need it.

I am not going to keep going round and round with you on this. I have a right to my opinion and it is not limited nor ridiculous. It is genuine and real.

I am NOT anti marriage
I am NOT anti woman

I AM cautious
I AM smart enough to learn from what I see


You do have a right to your opinion. But again.... you're making claims and the best you can do is back them up is point to the existence of a few web sites and a handful of people you know. Telling people that they need to do research and that they don't have enough experience to know what you know is not enough to convince anybody of anything.

Keep telling yourself you're smart. You'll get far in life.

Actually, if you look for the study titled, "These boots were made for walking" it will back up most of what is expressed. Women divorce early in marriage where they perceive they have the advantage. Men do so after the kids are gone.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Actually, if you look for the study titled, "These boots were made for walking" it will back up most of what is expressed. Women divorce early in marriage where they perceive they have the advantage. Men do so after the kids are gone.


So if there's a study that backs up some of what he's stating, then why didn't he present that when he was asked for it in the first place instead of insisting upon continuing to argue?

His claim: men get screwed in divorce cases
His evidence: "I know 30 people and there are web sites"

If I made the claim that Mobil 1 was death to engines because I know 30 people whose engines failed while using it and I know of a web site or three that says it's bad I'd get laughed off the site. Why are the standards of evidence different when we change the subject?

 

[javacontour]

The claim that will get you laughed off is that men have a fair chance in family court.
Just because he doesn't know about the study doesn't negate it's veracity.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
The claim that will get you laughed off is that men have a fair chance in family court.
Just because he doesn't know about the study doesn't negate it's veracity.


It takes a foolish person to make a claim that they can not substantiate. It takes a bigger fool to accept that claim without question.

I'll try to find time to read the study. I won't argue any more points until I've had time to digest it.

 

[javacontour]

The bottom line I took away from the study was the one who perceives an advantage is more likely to choose divorce. That turns out to be young women and older men.

Young women are more likely to do well in family court AND have a higher value in the relationship market.

Longer term marriages are ended more often by older men. Why? Same reasons. Since they don't have children at home they cannot lose them in a custody battle AND older men are more often established in their careers and are attractive in the dating , market.

Diviorces are initiated by women two to three times more often than by men. Since people engage in actions they believe will turn out favorably, it is not unreasonable to believe that women also believe they have some advantage in choosing divorce over working on their marriages with the father of their children.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Not a limited sample size at all nor is it one sided when I talk of my friends divorces as I knew the wives too. I got involved with my friends divorce( the one who has disappeared - trying to help him not lose his mind or do something stupid )and talked to a lot of men from his divorce support group about what happened. I have talked to at least 30 victims of the corrupt divorce system, from many states, and their stories are echoed across the country. You would be floored if you knew a small fraction of what goes on. I was stunned and I thought men were always screwed before hand. You are misinformed if you think what I have talked about is not the norm out there.

Wouldn't that be like talking to 30 victims of spousal abuse and concluding that all men hit their wives?


The point was I am not basing my opinion on 1 or 2 situations as the other poster was implying. I have seen quite a few cases personally and i talked to many men who have had their lives destroyed by divorce who did not deserve it( I know some who have deserved it as well ).

Also, while I agree there are always two side to any story I can't discount the similarities in things that happened to these men in their divorce time and time again, state across state. It isn't all lies or one sided twisting. It is clear the deck is stacked against the man in a divorce and it doesn't matter if he deserves it or not.

Just look at the posts on here from different members, across the country, who do not know each other that are posting the exact same warnings and story types. Open your eyes.


I can't wrap my head around this. There are literally millions of people in the United States who are married, and you consider a sampling of 30 to be adequate?

LazyPrizm nailed it. What you're saying is exactly like talking to 30 victims of spousal abuse and concluding that all men hit their wives. It's kind of ridiculous.
+1

 

[HerrStig]

Some people watch too much "reality" TV.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
The bottom line I took away from the study was the one who perceives an advantage is more likely to choose divorce. That turns out to be young women and older men.

Young women are more likely to do well in family court AND have a higher value in the relationship market.

Longer term marriages are ended more often by older men. Why? Same reasons. Since they don't have children at home they cannot lose them in a custody battle AND older men are more often established in their careers and are attractive in the dating , market.

Divorces are initiated by women two to three times more often than by men. Since people engage in actions they believe will turn out favorably, it is not unreasonable to believe that women also believe they have some advantage in choosing divorce over working on their marriages with the father of their children.


This is a pretty interesting read, but I'm not taking away the broad point that "men get screwed in divorce more than women do." What I'm taking away is that there are certain situations where you're more likely to get a raw deal than in other situations, and this applies to both men and women.

The only point that can really support that statement is simply in the fact that more women are initiating divorce than men. But that alone doesn't necessarily mean that after divorce life sucks more for the man than for the woman.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: javacontour

Actually no. More men are hospitalized than women due to injuries inflicted by a lover or spouse.

Women report more. Men are hospitalized more.
Do you have supporting document for these assertions?

 

[javacontour]

[url=Http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html][url=Http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html]Http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html[/url][/url]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: javacontour

Actually no. More men are hospitalized than women due to injuries inflicted by a lover or spouse.

Women report more. Men are hospitalized more.
Do you have supporting document for these assertions?


I am looking. I thought I read this from Dr Willard Harley. But so far, have only found this related to other points in the thread. Women file more than men, citing they feel neglected. Not abused or betrayed, just feeling something that may or may not be true.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
LazyPrizm nailed it. What you're saying is exactly like talking to 30 victims of spousal abuse and concluding that all men hit their wives. It's kind of ridiculous.
BUT, would it be fair to say that when it comes to spousal abuse women are more likely to be abused than men based upon the situation you presented?

Actually no. More men are hospitalized than women due to injuries inflicted by a lover or spouse.

Women report more. Men are hospitalized more.

My ex wife hit me. I was 5'11" and over 250# so it wasn't like my life was in danger. Still the police did nothing when I reported it.


The problem is in my state if she claimed that you hit her, no proof or truth is required just a claim. A judge can order any firearms you own seized and your license to posses them revoked.


So if your a firearms collector like me with a few bucks into a collection that can all evaporate on a claim and good luck getting them back, ever.

This is why anyone with any kind of money in firearms needs to put them in a trust before marrying.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
1st of all you are putting words in my mouth. I never said all women were bad or that no one should ever get married. I advise caution to men getting married these days because of how easy it is for a woman to take him to the cleaners and ruin his life. The modern day woman is NOT the same creature she was just 10-15 years back. Also, the legal system is 100% stacked AGAINST the man. If you think those two comments are ridiculous then you are very sheltered from the harsh realities of today's world.

How many people out of those millions do you know? How many do you know that have been divorced? Just how big a sample size am I to have to form an opinion? What I have seen, personally, clearly backs up my comments. What I have said is echoed by others on here as well. So they too are ridiculous?

You seem very naive about divorce to me. I don't mean that as an insult either. Just an observation. Either that or because you haven't seen it happen you can't or won't believe those who have.

You and a few others in this thread should really take some time and go visit some of the websites out there that teach women how to find the right guy to marry so they can take him for everything. Or the ones that teach the woman how to go about the divorce( lie and falsely accuse )to score big. Then come back and call me ridiculous again. These websites are a modern day thing not something people who have been married 20+ years would have had to worry about. My warnings and others are for people not yet married, who will marry a young modern woman. Half of you guys yelling at me are doing so without the foundation/experience for it.

You believe what you wish. I truly hope you don't wake up someday and finds your wife has decided to move on and take everything you own with her while at the same time accusing you of horrible things you didn't do so it is easier for her to get it all. If that happens I hope you can afford the dream team for lawyers because you will need it.

I am not going to keep going round and round with you on this. I have a right to my opinion and it is not limited nor ridiculous. It is genuine and real.

I am NOT anti marriage
I am NOT anti woman

I AM cautious
I AM smart enough to learn from what I see


You do have a right to your opinion. But again.... you're making claims and the best you can do is back them up is point to the existence of a few web sites and a handful of people you know. Telling people that they need to do research and that they don't have enough experience to know what you know is not enough to convince anybody of anything.

Keep telling yourself you're smart. You'll get far in life.


I don't know how much you expect one person to actually be involved in to qualify their comments as more than just anecdotal which is what you seem to think mine are. I also don't know just how many bad divorces where the guy got screwed big time you expect someone to see before they have the right to start thinking like me. Seems to me know one can ever produce enough experience or info to satisfy you.

 

[BubbaFL]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

The problem is in my state if she claimed that you hit her, no proof or truth is required just a claim. A judge can order any firearms you own seized and your license to posses them revoked.

So if your a firearms collector like me with a few bucks into a collection that can all evaporate on a claim and good luck getting them back, ever.

This is why anyone with any kind of money in firearms needs to put them in a trust before marrying.


It's like that in every state that allows FAPA restraining orders to be issued (which is probably every state). If you are the subject of a restraining order, it is a Federal crime to possess firearms or ammunition (18 USC §922(g)(8) ).

Having ownership in a trust won't solve this problem. If the firearms are physically in your possession, you're cooked.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I don't know how much you expect one person to actually be involved in to qualify their comments as more than just anecdotal which is what you seem to think mine are. I also don't know just how many bad divorces where the guy got screwed big time you expect someone to see before they have the right to start thinking like me. Seems to me know one can ever produce enough experience or info to satisfy you.



I don't know you from anybody else on the internet. You're just a random person. Which means that from the start you have zero credibility. When you say the things you've been saying mixed with statements like "I don't trust women" and then a paragraph later say that you don't believe that all women are bad, it looks like you're trying to be able to say borderline misogynistic things but then immediately throw out a half hearted apology so people can't call you on it. It's like starting a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..." to preemptively alleviate yourself of the guilt of saying something racist.

People on the internet debate like this all of the time. Nobody learns anything and everybody walks away frustrated.

Take a tip from javacontour. If you enter a conversation like this with a legitimate study in your back pocket, one from a reputable source with real names on it of people who have actual credentials and are qualified to do research on the subject, it saves a lot of time and frustration for the guy who just wants some real information on the topic.

You can be right, but if you can't prove it then it doesn't matter.

 

[andrewg]

It's sometimes amusing on this board to watch the evolution of a thread go from an honest question and request for opinions from the OP, to an almost nasty discourse of slights, put-downs, and downright insults. I'm sure I've been guilty of the same thing at times, but it's predictable how these things go. We all have our opinions....and certainly a right to express them in a gentlemanly fashion, but it frequently seems to go the path of nastiness. The even more humorous part is that it doesn't even have to be a topic of any great importance either. I'll bet folks on here will argue about just about anything.
And here is MY opinion...marriage can be awful for some and wonderful for others. The caution and warnings on here are not so much a condemnation of marriage as much as it is condemnation of how our culture has allowed the vows, expectations, and meaning of the union to be pushed to the wayside. I think if those wanting to be married actually took it as a more sacred thing as well as a LIFETIME commitment, the institution would be in better shape. Sadly, this will most likely never happen. The role of the female as the nurturing, loyal and devoted woman has become almost a joke. Same for the man. He was supposed to be the protector and provider as well as avoiding even the appearance of impropriety. Not so much anymore. Oh well. We reap what we sow.

 

[javacontour]

Let's try the link again:

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html

Since women file the majority of divorces, and it stands to reason they file when they perceive the advantage, more men than women file for divorce.

Frankly, I don't see how it's anything other than tragic when a faithful father loses primary custody of his child simply because his wife no longer wants to honor her vows.

But since fidelity is not considered due to No Fault Divorce laws, all it takes is for someone to say I no longer want to be married and there is a good chance she'll be walking away with your child.

Her failure to keep her vow is immaterial in court.

Yet we wonder why we see more people in society who think honor is an outdated concept.

As I've said before, you can't keep someone against his/her will. But why reward (or trust them) with the responsibility to raise a responsible, productive child when the means they are becoming a single parent is because they no longer want to be held to their vows simply because they don't feel like it.

We have too much "Follow your heart" and not enough "The heart is deceitful above all things."

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Let's try the link again:

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/24/2518581/most-of-the-time-wife-initiates.html

Since women file the majority of divorces, and it stands to reason they file when they perceive the advantage, more men than women file for divorce.

Frankly, I don't see how it's anything other than tragic when a faithful father loses primary custody of his child simply because his wife no longer wants to honor her vows.

But since fidelity is not considered due to No Fault Divorce laws, all it takes is for someone to say I no longer want to be married and there is a good chance she'll be walking away with your child.

Her failure to keep her vow is immaterial in court.

Yet we wonder why we see more people in society who think honor is an outdated concept.

As I've said before, you can't keep someone against his/her will. But why reward (or trust them) with the responsibility to raise a responsible, productive child when the means they are becoming a single parent is because they no longer want to be held to their vows simply because they don't feel like it.

We have too much "Follow your heart" and not enough "The heart is deceitful above all things."


It sounds like the real thing to be angry about are no-fault divoce laws.

I do tend to agree that more people need to take a step back and do a realistic evaluation of their relationship. Following your heart alone without seeking answers to very important questions that could give you some idea of how successful the marriage will be is asking for trouble.

I think one step in the right direction might be to incentivize pre-marital counseling.