Which oil next? Experiment on 2018 Outback
- Thread starter Glenda W.
- Start date
Ready for next weekend. Test phase 2.
Yeah, I know that trick. I asked you a question which was not answered, yet you asked me a question. I’m not going to waste any more of my time.
There is direct correlation between increased oil control ring piston deposits and increased oil consumption. They are directly related. And, it wasn’t until 25k miles into the swap over to Valvoline’s EP that significant increases in oil consumption occurred. This started and gradually worsened after 60k miles on the engine; and 25k miles into using Valvoline EP. Was it caused by Valvoline? Not conclusive. But it wasn’t prevented either. Meanwhile, the Valvoline R&P has reversed this. So, the oil is at minimum partially to blame. Preventing deposits? It wasn’t good at in this context, for this vehicle. Have an engine easy on oil? Shortish intervals likely won’t ever see a problem running the Valvoline. Severe service on a problem prone engine design? Maybe up your oil selection or just run VRP.
This is a really interesting report. Very grateful Glenda shared with us. The 5k/6 month OCI is so commonly recommended, usually with the addition of "and you'll never have engine-related problems."
I'm curious, instead of focusing on which oil caused it, what do you all think would have prevented it?
I'm curious, instead of focusing on which oil caused it, what do you all think would have prevented it?
- AMSOIL or another boutique?
- More frequent changes with any oil?
- More frequent with a higher quality oil?
- Would an early UOA have shown issues and caught it? If you could go back in time and run a UOA knowing that this issue was developing, what would you have seen?
Great questions! This vehicle has sure made me rethink years of experience with oils and vehicles. I’ve never had an oil burner like this. Is it a one off? Do I even gamble with my next and more expensive new vehicle?
Some GDI engines are extremely tough on oil. There are so many variables to consider - engine make, design, driving conditions, oil type. Some oils do a better job at keeping combustion byproducts in suspension while running cleaner in high temperature ring areas. Oil formulations vary from blender to blender and are changing all the time. I would normally say oils with great solvency from the use of esters as well as robust detergent and dispersant package, should keep rings clean. Some of most modern oil/add packs we are seeing now (limited via VOA though) are showing lower metallic additives than ever before. So, they're having to rely on other things for cleanliness boosting.
VRP is unique. Arguably cleans better than them all. However, there are limitations with this oil too - it's only GF-7/SP rated and not built for extended drains or maximum shear stability. The 5w30 grade seems to dip into the 20-grade range much like Mobil 1 does. It's a more fuel economy focused oil than a Euro oil with a higher HT/HS.
The Amsoil SS I recently sampled was the darkest I've ever seen. It so black, as was my filter. I thought for sure the UOA was going to show massive fuel dilution, soot and drop in viscosity. Not the case. The oil and filter did a great job keeping everything in suspension.
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So is Mobil 1 0w30 the new German Castrol? That's the vibe I've been getting on this forum lately...the oil that can do no wrong, lol.
The Mobil 1 ESP line is readily available and very good - 5w30, 0w30, 0w40 X4.
As of now the formula hasn’t changed except in the 5w30 flavor. The approvals are impressive throughout.
I don't doubt that it's a fine product...like many others.
Please!
You haven’t said one word about Das Wunder Oil, also known as Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 possibly contributing to the piston ring deposits!
As expected, anything M-1 on BITOG is worshipped, more especially nowadays with anything labeled with “ESP.”
Until it isn’t! You know, kinda like the Fram Ultra or the Fram Endurance…..!? Suddenly she’s kicked to the curb and there’s a new girlfriend in the picture. Premium Guard!
The reality is your words “not conclusive” and “not prevented, either” demonstrate you have no idea when those piston deposits began.
You say: “…but it wasn’t prevented either.”
Exactly my point. With 58% of the 60k miles run on M-1 FS 0w-40, that M-1 oil did little if nothing to prevent the formation of deposits!
“…..So, the oil is at minimum partially to blame. Preventing deposits? It wasn’t good at in this context, for this vehicle.”
Your words bolded above. And those words apply to your unspoken
M-1 FS 0w-40.
Otherwise, you want several knowledgeable people on BITOG to believe that Valvoline 5w-30 EP, an API SP rated and D1/G3 extended protection full synthetic oil, used five (5) times with 5k mile OCIs, caused the initial formation and accumulation of deposits on the pistons which, in turn, caused that sudden increase in oil consumption?
And God forbid, life was perfect with the M-1 until the Valvoline EP came along, right?
Absent pictures of the pistons and piston rings new, as well as after 35k miles on the M-1, and after 25k miles on the Valvoline EP, your comments are nothing but conjecture and speculation.
And an obvious dislike for Valvoline EP.
good point to notice, Valvoline is fully rated SP,GF6,and dexos gen 3,,find it hard to believe it caused any problems as previously stated in other posts, and many other brands are same rated oils, Rember to use proper oci and you should have no issues with any oil providing its has correct license's and approvals and using correct viscosity's, Mobil 1 is not the only oil on the market that is good.
I really think in this case vehicle design is the primary driving issue. JMO.
This and that I’m in mountainous terrain so severe service. But after some testing I hope to find a few oils good enough to handle it.
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I believe it’s down to engine primarily and the conditions as well.
Question: How many years passed between switching from M1 to Valvoline before the consumption increased? I would appreciate this for context and clarity. Thanks
1) Speaking for myself, this has nothing to do with brand; I have used Valvoline for the majority of my life and it’s got excellent products including their EP.
2) Your assumption that I lay “no” blame at the feet of M1 is on you; not my words.
3) According to your stated reasoning, we also can’t conclude Valvoline’s R&P is the primary reason for the oil consumption improving since “we have no clue when the deposits began cleaning!”
4) Please refrain from small quotes and twisting my words in the future. M1 is partially responsible, but IMO based on the data it didn’t allow for as many deposits as the EP.
5) #4 can be be true and it still be down to an engine design and service conditions seen.
Thanks and if you would like to clarify my position on things I did not state in future posts please approach with curiosity instead of judging my position without even full context.
Have a great day!
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I wasn’t retired yet so I was still racking up the miles. If I had to guess 1 to 1 1/2 years.
Anyone that reads the summary in this thread:
And thinks “gee M1 really was a problem here!” 8 ounces in 5k miles is negligible and was consistent from new. That, IMO, is clearly the design flaw.
It wasn’t until 60k miles on the engine and 25k miles; 25 THOUSAND, after the swap to Val EP, that the consumption significantly changed. It was stable on the EP for quite a while! And that’s “if” the oil is partially to blame here and it can not be ruled out as we see a separate Vaolvine product getting a reversal of the consumption increase!
We can not credit one Valvoline product with “the cure” to deposits while another was; while not causative, definitely not preventative to the allowed increase as it was the primary oil for a long time before increase started.
I don’t get why that basic rationale and reasoning skills are twisted into a brand hate. Unless we can’t agree upon clear data indicating likelihoods. Just the facts.
And thinks “gee M1 really was a problem here!” 8 ounces in 5k miles is negligible and was consistent from new. That, IMO, is clearly the design flaw.
It wasn’t until 60k miles on the engine and 25k miles; 25 THOUSAND, after the swap to Val EP, that the consumption significantly changed. It was stable on the EP for quite a while! And that’s “if” the oil is partially to blame here and it can not be ruled out as we see a separate Vaolvine product getting a reversal of the consumption increase!
We can not credit one Valvoline product with “the cure” to deposits while another was; while not causative, definitely not preventative to the allowed increase as it was the primary oil for a long time before increase started.
I don’t get why that basic rationale and reasoning skills are twisted into a brand hate. Unless we can’t agree upon clear data indicating likelihoods. Just the facts.
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Have you checked the PCV valve? Also I'm curious what oil temps you commonly see? I do find with ours it doesn't take much increase over the 1600-2000 cruising rpms to get the oil in the low 220's F
With the dealership 0W20 mystery oil I did see lots of varnish under the fill cap with 6k mile OCI's for the first 8 changes, then I switched to mostly PP Euro 0/5W30 which hasn't removed the varnish that I can see, but is probably better oil I am assuming. I put in 5l and usually seem to drain about 4.4l in a 6-7k mile OCI.
It does get driven fairly hard by my wife, and with the cruise on, it sees a bit of 3k rpm engine braking. I guess in the mountains you could see 4k rpm engine braking for miles at a time if you use the cruise control?
I can't say I've noticed more or less consumption in the 60k miles I've been changing it, but I haven't been recording or measuring carefully.
With the dealership 0W20 mystery oil I did see lots of varnish under the fill cap with 6k mile OCI's for the first 8 changes, then I switched to mostly PP Euro 0/5W30 which hasn't removed the varnish that I can see, but is probably better oil I am assuming. I put in 5l and usually seem to drain about 4.4l in a 6-7k mile OCI.
It does get driven fairly hard by my wife, and with the cruise on, it sees a bit of 3k rpm engine braking. I guess in the mountains you could see 4k rpm engine braking for miles at a time if you use the cruise control?
I can't say I've noticed more or less consumption in the 60k miles I've been changing it, but I haven't been recording or measuring carefully.
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