The Glenda ESP Reaffirmation Thread.
Which oil next? Experiment on 2018 Outback
- Thread starter Glenda W.
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Another vote for ESP 0w30. Running beautifully in my civic after 4 runs of VRP. Did notice a 1mpg drop over the first 1k miles on the run and then by 5k is averaged out to the same as VRP
I have gotten great results with M1 ESP and I recommend it to everyone on SubaruOutback.org
We had a noisy Subaru (1998) and switched to that. Noticeably quieter.
I put 0w30 ESP in my '24 Forester. Same 0w30 ESP in a '25 Toyota 3.5 V6. Both are spec'd for 0w20. Once I get out of warranty and the "free" oil changes at 10,000 and 20, 000 miles, I plan to go with an HPL oil in the Toyota engine (maybe No VII 10w20?) and run it at least 10,000 miles. Forester has an "every 6000 mile" recommendation...I'm going every 5000 with ESP (it's mostly highway driven). (side note: found the Lexus can get mid-30 mpg running 0w30 at 75-85 mph on long trips...pleasantly surprised at the efficiency of this engine)
That's been my general experience with Castrol oils. They quiet engines down even if it's the same grade.
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I vote for M1 ESP. 0/5W-30.
I will elaborate on my previous vote for m1 esp 0w30. This should happen after the consumption stabilizes from VRP. So similar consumption with VRP and then experimenting with others for interval 5, 6?
The now defunct Magnatec was very accomplished at this.
Unfortunately, Valvoline EP was likely the oil responsible for the oil consumption developing in the first place.
Unfortunately, Valvoline EP was likely the oil responsible for the oil consumption developing in the first place.
Au contraire!
Before the Valvoline Hate Wagon gets filled to capacity and starts its wild careen downhill, let’s look at a few facts, shall we?
Take a look at Glenda W’s other post related to the four OCI run of VRP:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-r-p-oil-burner-test-results.393476/
I’ll save you the reading and cut directly to the chase:
“……Started burning oil right at about 60k miles. Before that it only used about a 1/4 quart in a 5k mile oci.
500-35k miles M1 FS 0w40
35k-100k miles Valvoline EP 5w30”
What you want us to believe is the piston rings suffered those deposits over a 25k mile Valvoline usage with oil changes occurring every 5k miles.
Yet, while using “Das Wunder Oil!,” aka M-1 FS 0w-40, the engine was already using 1/4 of a quart every 5k miles. And it continued to do so right up to the mileage (60k) where it was now consuming 32 ounces every 5k miles versus 8 ounces.
And according to Glenda W, 58% of those 60k miles were run using Das Wunder Oil.
Having kicked over the M-1 FS 0w-40 slobber bucket, call me skeptical of your finger pointing at Valvoline.
It’s more likely that poor engine design contributed the most to the accumulation of deposits and subsequent oil use.
And as has often been said here on BITOG, there’s not a motor oil made that can completely resolve the problems caused by poor engine design.
But in the OP’s case, VRP seems to have mitigated most of the problem.
The engine’s susceptibility to piston deposits is irrelevant to determining the effects of the multiple oils used.
500-35k miles M1 FS 0w40 (.25qt/5k mi)
35k-60k miles Valv. EP 5w30 (.25qt/5k mi)
60k-100k miles Valv. EP 5w30 (1 to 2.5 qt/5k mi)
From that data, I think it is very likely that the piston deposits significantly worsened while using Valvoline EP. VRP later reducing consumption to .75 qt in 5k miles likely indicates that the earlier high oil consumption was not largely due to wear, and that VRP likely achieved this by reducing piston deposits. If this theory is rejected, what is an alternative theory? Poor engine design does not seem like a viable theory because it has no apparent ability to explain the data. The engine design was a constant. Oils used varied, as did oil consumption.
500-35k miles M1 FS 0w40 (.25qt/5k mi)
35k-60k miles Valv. EP 5w30 (.25qt/5k mi)
60k-100k miles Valv. EP 5w30 (1 to 2.5 qt/5k mi)
From that data, I think it is very likely that the piston deposits significantly worsened while using Valvoline EP. VRP later reducing consumption to .75 qt in 5k miles likely indicates that the earlier high oil consumption was not largely due to wear, and that VRP likely achieved this by reducing piston deposits. If this theory is rejected, what is an alternative theory? Poor engine design does not seem like a viable theory because it has no apparent ability to explain the data. The engine design was a constant. Oils used varied, as did oil consumption.
Data?
What data, other than M-1 0w-40 was used for 58% of the first 60k miles?
That was my point, except you want to minimize the poor engine design as a direct contributor to the deposits and oil usage and instead, blame a premium synthetic oil that was changed every 5k miles using premium oil filters during a 25k mile use of that oil.
Your “data” doesn’t add up.
If it did then every car owner who’s used Valvoline EP for 5k mile OCIs post-factory fill should be having noticeable deposit problems and oil usage.
And I would love to see pictures of the pistons and rings in the OP’s Outback after 36k miles of M-1 0w-40. We know that won’t happen but I seriously doubt they were “factory new” at 36k miles as you’d like everyone to believe.
What data, other than M-1 0w-40 was used for 58% of the first 60k miles?
That was my point, except you want to minimize the poor engine design as a direct contributor to the deposits and oil usage and instead, blame a premium synthetic oil that was changed every 5k miles using premium oil filters during a 25k mile use of that oil.
Your “data” doesn’t add up.
If it did then every car owner who’s used Valvoline EP for 5k mile OCIs post-factory fill should be having noticeable deposit problems and oil usage.
And I would love to see pictures of the pistons and rings in the OP’s Outback after 36k miles of M-1 0w-40. We know that won’t happen but I seriously doubt they were “factory new” at 36k miles as you’d like everyone to believe.
I just meant the information that Glenda supplied.
I didn’t create new data. I summarized parts of Glenda’s data and gave very simple and cautious explanations for what I think happened.
I agree with what you said that the engine lends itself to (piston) deposits. Most engines that with much less tendency to that should not have noticeable piston deposit problems with 5k mile OCIs.
I’d love to see that too. I would not expect M1 0W-40 FS to have kept the pistons factory new in Glenda’s engine. I don’t think it can be safely said what the outcome would have been if that oil had been used for the first 100k miles.
Do you think piston deposits significantly increased while Valvoline EP was used? If not, what explains the significant increase in oil consumption during its use? Don’t say the engine design, since it was the same engine design the whole time.
My gut says the Valvoline EP accelerated the process but no way to know for sure. Around the time I switched to Valvoline the FS 0w40 was going through the formula change if I recall correctly. I tried the new Valvoline EP and was impressed with how my engine sounded and stuck with it(nothing scientific). Looking back I think Valvoline uses a great add pack but mediocre base oils. Again I’m going by my gut.
I’m really impressed with how the ESP has been doing in all my other vehicles and the vehicles I maintain. Really looking forward to the next stage of this test.
I’m really impressed with how the ESP has been doing in all my other vehicles and the vehicles I maintain. Really looking forward to the next stage of this test.
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Be careful, in a month it could be gospel here that Valvoline uses lower quality base oils and the truth is we don’t know.
You are right add packs and UOAs are great.
In your case, I wonder if you would have seen a difference using EP HM which is GTL.
I hope not as that’s not my intent. I try to always post it’s an opinion when I don’t know for sure.Be careful, in a month it could be gospel here that Valvoline uses lower quality base oils and the truth is we don’t know.
You are right add packs and UOAs are great.
In your case, I wonder if you would have seen a difference using EP HM which is GTL.
Great question. I recall some posting a current move to GTL in all EP variations. Maybe after the 500k mile dyno test Valvoline made some changes.
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