Which of the top 3-4 company makes the 'most synthetic' oil?

[madeej11]

Funny though, when certain boutique oils won't disclose, they're labeled scAMS.

 

[bfleeman]

The percentages given are always ranges, not specific amounts, there is nothing proprietary being divulged in that process. If XOM says M1 EP 0w-20 SDS lists 50-70% PAO in it, that's a pretty broad fudge factor.

They could also say 50-70% PAO and it actually only be 5%. Nothing requires an accurate range under a trade secret claim exemption on the SDS.

 

[bfleeman]

Some ranges are even broader like <90% synthetic base

 

[4WD]

They could also say 50-70% PAO and it actually only be 5%. Nothing requires an accurate range under a trade secret claim exemption on the SDS.

Or when that hits the shelf … it does not sell. And there are plenty here that point the “fake finger” … but don’t buy the high priced lubes …

 

[OVERKILL]

They could also say 50-70% PAO and it actually only be 5%. Nothing requires an accurate range under a trade secret claim exemption on the SDS.

This doesn't seem to support that:

Question 1: Is it allowable to claim and list an ingredient as trade secret in section 3 of the SDS if it is an actual range (e.g., 10-15%) due to substantially similar mixtures, or batch to batch variability? Can an actual range (10-15%) be masked with a wider range (e.g., 10-30%) and be claimed as trade secret? Can an ingredient concentration such as ≤5% be masked and replaced with trade secret instead of the value?

Response: The HCS allows a manufacturer or importer to indicate on the SDS that the specific chemical identity and/or the exact percentage of composition of a hazardous ingredient is being withheld as a trade secret. A manufacturer or importer may not claim trade secret status for a concentration range and is prohibited from masking the true range by use of a wider range. If a concentration range is used on the SDS it must be limited in terms of the percentage concentration variation (i.e., the narrowest range possible), and the variation in concentration must have no effect on the hazard of the mixture. The HCS does not prohibit the use of symbols, such as ≥ or <, to identify a range of values in place of the exact percentage, as long as the range does not include zero percentage (0%) and represents the narrowest range possible; however, the symbol “~” (i.e., approximate or about) is not allowed to be used.

Use of trade secret in lieu of known ingredient percentages on SDSs | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

And clearly, since XOM is identifying PAO as the base in use, they aren't trying to hide it under a trade secret.

 

[kschachn]

They could also say 50-70% PAO and it actually only be 5%. Nothing requires an accurate range under a trade secret claim exemption on the SDS.

Again I’m not talking about trade secrets. I know about them and how they are reported.

 

[bfleeman]

This doesn't seem to support that:

Use of trade secret in lieu of known ingredient percentages on SDSs | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

And clearly, since XOM is identifying PAO as the base in use, they aren't trying to hide it under a trade secret.

Some may be more forthcoming in their ranges than others. Maybe not too. No possible way of knowing the truth. I’ve seen many ranges simply <90% of whatever. The main thing is that they list the hazard and regardless of percentage that it doesn’t make it more hazardous.

 

[kschachn]

And clearly, since XOM is identifying PAO as the base in use, they aren't trying to hide it under a trade secret.

Correct.

 

[kschachn]

Funny though, when certain boutique oils won't disclose, they're labeled scAMS.

Which boutique oils don’t disclose on their SDS?

 

[bfleeman]

This doesn't seem to support that:

Use of trade secret in lieu of known ingredient percentages on SDSs | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

And clearly, since XOM is identifying PAO as the base in use, they aren't trying to hide it under a trade secret.

I’m not saying their hiding the use of PAO, or any other hazardous material for that matter, just the percentages used

 

[kschachn]

I’m not saying their hiding the use of PAO, or any other hazardous material for that matter, just the percentages used

I’m lost now. Who is hiding that?

 

[bfleeman]

I’m lost now. Who is hiding that?

Everyone. Lol.

 

[kschachn]

Everyone. Lol.

Okay sure.

 

[bfleeman]

Okay sure.

just an example of a company playing fast and loose with the percentages. 0-90%. That’s quite the range.

 

[kschachn]

But that is essentially one compound. It’s not PAO by the way. It is a standard hydrocarbon chain.

 

[bfleeman]

But that is essentially one compound. It’s not PAO by the way.

Didn’t say it was. I think we’re talking past one another here. I’m simply saying that you can’t take these percentage ranges and assume they are correct.

 

[350Rocket]

E

Didn’t say it was. I think we’re talking past one another here. I’m simply saying that you can’t take these percentage ranges and assume they are correct.

I'd assume 0-90 is correct. Most likely 50-70% is also correct.

 

[4WD]

Here’s an oldie but goodie

 

[OVERKILL]

Here’s an oldie but goodie

View attachment 34973

Yup, when we are talking percentage ranges, this is what is being referenced. Which is consistent with what's spelled out in what I quoted from OSHA.

Here is one from Royal Purple:

AMSOIL gives some generous ranges as well. The below shows 10-30% PAO for the whole SS series:

 

[madeej11]

Which boutique oils don’t disclose on their SDS?

You're right, they do. What I meant is if they don't divulge that they are using majority pao some members lash out.