So I've want to buy a $60K electric Kia...

[edyvw]

Yes, as many cars do, you do what you can do.

Also, weight is No.1 enemy of performance. Adding more weight to get better balance is really not the solution.

 

[Ws6]

To say that dash and cluster are derivative would be being very, very kind. That's two fused iDrive screens. Of course we often hear that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and when you hire ex-BMW guys, I guess you end up with stuff that looks like it came from BMW...

Pretty much everyone has the same layout.

But I guess go ahead and cry foul.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Boring... no clutch or manual shifter and I will definitely miss real analog gauges... I haven't seen a screen that was even a tolerable substitute. Might as remove the steering wheel, take a nap, and let the car drive you there too.

 

[Ws6]

Dropping the max charge rate from 230 to 150 is a 35% drop, Im curious how you calculated that would only be 3-4 minutes longer?

If it overheats when its cold, it's going to overheat faster at 100. so although Im sure it will be "fine"- thats going to affect charging times.

Do you have any actual degradation data?

I presume you mean battery degradation? None of the cars have degraded enough for anyone to have measurable account of that. Literally ZERO posts about it on any forum I am on, and when the question comes up, people just post "None on mine per *insert app they use*". I wondered myself, but noone seems to have suffered any. Every now and then you get the doofus posting "My car has 30% less range today, is my battery broken?" on -10*F days or something, but that's about it.

Because the car does not charge at 235kW the whole way through. Area under the curve is what's important. Going to a 150kW charger is going to only slow you by 5 minutes or so. Most people quote "low 20's" for charge time in the EV6 on a 150kW charger due to this. This is assuming optimum temperatures, but if it's cold out, obviously everything will charge slower.

 

[edyvw]

Pretty much everyone has the same layout.

But I guess go ahead and cry foul.

There is no going crying foul. KIA/Hyundai etc. always try to copy from best.
I remember trying to figure out bigger vehicle than my X5 and went to try 3rd gen Pilot.
The central console is tilted almost to same degree as E70 X5, with same button layout and design. Take a look at just that part of console and you would think it is BMW.
Not to mention that BMW had iDrive 20yrs ago which started all this screen thing.

 

[Ws6]

There is no going crying foul. KIA/Hyundai etc. always try to copy from best.
I remember trying to figure out bigger vehicle than my X5 and went to try 3rd gen Pilot.
The central console is tilted almost to same degree as E70 X5, with same button layout and design. Take a look at just that part of console and you would think it is BMW.
Not to mention that BMW had iDrive 20yrs ago which started all this screen thing.

I guess if I were giving them a grade in a class instead of buying their product, I'd care about plagiarism.

 

[edyvw]

I guess if I were giving them a grade in a class instead of buying their product, I'd care about plagiarism.

Sure. Just saying. There is reason for that.
There are things they can’t copy. Therefore, price reflects that.

 

[aquariuscsm]

clutch or manual shifter

^^Those two items are definitely a requirement!

 

[Escape08]

You're going to fall asleep driving because it's so quiet

 

[UncleDave]

I presume you mean battery degradation? None of the cars have degraded enough for anyone to have measurable account of that. Literally ZERO posts about it on any forum I am on, and when the question comes up, people just post "None on mine per *insert app they use*". I wondered myself, but noone seems to have suffered any. Every now and then you get the doofus posting "My car has 30% less range today, is my battery broken?" on -10*F days or something, but that's about it.

Because the car does not charge at 235kW the whole way through. Area under the curve is what's important. Going to a 150kW charger is going to only slow you by 5 minutes or so. Most people quote "low 20's" for charge time in the EV6 on a 150kW charger due to this. This is assuming optimum temperatures, but if it's cold out, obviously everything will charge slower.

I almost really like these cars, but I'll hold out a bit longer.

We know what happens to pouch cells after repeated and or high heat cycles - they swell.
I think the move to cylindrical by BMW speaks volumes.

I posted the curve earlier, e-GMP cars are basically flat on everyone test to about 45% then it stair steps down to below 150.
Let's say 5 min is the number, thats 5 extra min per stop and on a 4 stop trip thats another 20 min on top of the existing time penalty vs ice.

Why would I pick a car I need to intentionally slow down in order to maintain cabin comfort?

My concern with this platform is that I'll get an update that hobbles charging further to protect the battery.

I dont beleive e-gmp handles degraded cells as elegantly as others.

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/serious-instantaneous-battery-degradation.41291/

I do hope it works awesome for you , and I have no doubt it will be an utter blast to drive.

 

[Ws6]

I almost really like these cars, but I'll hold out a bit longer.

We know what happens to pouch cells after repeated and or high heat cycles - they swell.

I posted the curve earlier, e-GMP cars are basically flat on everyone test to about 45% then it stair steps down to below 150.
Let's say 5 min is the number, thats 5 extra min per stop and on a 4 stop trip thats another 20 min on top of the existing time penalty vs ice.

I dont beleive e-gmp handles degraded cells as elegantly as others.

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/serious-instantaneous-battery-degradation.41291/

I do hope it works awesome for you , and I have no doubt it will be an utter blast to drive.

Pouch cells are fine. The nice thing about them is the modular array. One goes bad? Replace it. With a Tesla, it's a whole lot more complex than that. Gotta do "surgery" on that battery pack. The reason many EV's use pouch cells is because of packaging and modularity. You can make the battery pack more "dense" with pouch setup. A proper setup will allow for some pouch swell, as it does indeed occur.

As to your link, yes, sometimes a module fails. Teslas suffer this, too. Gas engines suffer this. Transmissions suffer this. Sometimes a flaw just happens to happen along.

As to the length of time? Lots of brands are suffering insane repair delays. Kindof just what it is, that.

Also, this is why I bought the GT. I wanted every scrap of knowledge the H/K design team learned on developing the base models, prior. Also, this goes back to my philosophy of buying halo cars. You are treated better at the dealer and corporate level for it. You just are. An AMG Black customer is not treated like a GLA250 customer. It's not right, but it's natural.

 

[Ws6]

You're going to fall asleep driving because it's so quiet

Sometimes after a messy time at work, a serene ride home is excellent. If you know, you know.

 

[OVERKILL]

Pretty much everyone has the same layout.

But I guess go ahead and cry foul.

It's not the layout, it's how much those parts look like they came from the BMW parts bin.
X5 45e dash:

VS the KIA one:

The screen is the X5 screen, they just added another one as the gauge cluster. The centre stack is also very BMW.

Not "crying foul", it's just an observation, I test drove a lot of BMW's recently, as you know, so that immediately jumped out at me.

 

[Ws6]

It's not the layout, it's how much those parts look like they came from the BMW parts bin.
X5 45e dash:

VS the KIA one:

The screen is the X5 screen, they just added another one as the gauge cluster. The centre stack is also very BMW.

Rumor has it, Jeep SRT uses the same basic 8 speed as BMW's M division...

 

[OVERKILL]

Rumor has it, Jeep SRT uses the same basic 8 speed as BMW's M division...

Solid effort there.

 

[Ws6]

Solid effort there.

I mean, what does BMW actually make? Do you think they actually make their infotainment in-house? I'd bet they all crib from the same supplier. And while we are on that...you want a German smart phone or a Korean one?

 

[OVERKILL]

I mean, what does BMW actually make? Do you think they actually make their infotainment in-house? I'd bet they all crib from the same supplier. And while we are on that...you want a German smart phone or a Korean one?

BMW has sourced gearboxes from a 3rd party basically forever. My sister's '03 330i has a GM transmission for example. While other marques (Mercedes, Ford, GM) have had successful powertrain devisions with gearbox development, most marques buy from AISIN, ZF...etc. as these entities tend to just be much better at it (with the odd exception of course).

Suppliers for the screens and hardware to drive them varies. FCA used three different suppliers for uConnect (the ones in our vehicles are Panasonic), which is their proprietary interface. BMW developed their iDrive software, but of course they didn't produce the hardware that runs it, it'll be one of the majors, could be anybody from Samsung to Foxconn.

It's the aesthetic that grabbed me. Most marques, regardless of who produces the hardware, at least makes an effort to make it appear as though it's their own/exclusive. This particular screen is clearly a direct copy of what BMW has been doing for the last few years now. That's not a dig, it's just an observation, as I remarked, imitation is certainly a form of flattery and when you hire folks from BMW, it's not surprising that you end up with some stuff that looks like it's from BMW.

 

[edyvw]

BMW has sourced gearboxes from a 3rd party basically forever. My sister's '03 330i has a GM transmission for example. While other marques (Mercedes, Ford, GM) have had successful powertrain devisions with gearbox development, most marques buy from AISIN, ZF...etc. as these entities tend to just be much better at it (with the odd exception of course).

Suppliers for the screens and hardware to drive them varies. FCA used three different suppliers for uConnect (the ones in our vehicles are Panasonic), which is their proprietary interface. BMW developed their iDrive software, but of course they didn't produce the hardware that runs it, it'll be one of the majors, could be anybody from Samsung to Foxconn.

It's the aesthetic that grabbed me. Most marques, regardless of who produces the hardware, at least makes an effort to make it appear as though it's their own/exclusive. This particular screen is clearly a direct copy of what BMW has been doing for the last few years now. That's not a dig, it's just an observation, as I remarked, imitation is certainly a form of flattery and when you hire folks from BMW, it's not surprising that you end up with some stuff that looks like it's from BMW.

BMW and ZF are like twin brothers.
All ZF transmissions are developed with BMW and always see first application there.
There is a reason why ZF has factory next to BMW factory in the US.
So, that question about SRT; yeah, one can say it is transmission developed by BMW.

 

[OVERKILL]

BMW and ZF are like twin brothers.
All ZF transmissions are developed with BMW and always see first application there.
There is a reason why ZF has factory next to BMW factory in the US.
So, that question about SRT; yeah, one can say it is transmission developed by BMW.

My point was that, more broadly, the ZF 8HP has seen service by a long list of manufacturers in a much longer list of different vehicles. Yes, that arguably started with BMW, who seems to work very closely with ZF, but includes VAG (including Porsche, Lamborghini, Audi...etc), FCA (now Stellantis), Aston Martin, Toyota, Lancia and even some Chinese companies.

ZF is a very successful gearbox manufacturer used by a large chunk of the automotive industry because they, generally, produce an excellent product.

 

[edyvw]

My point was that, more broadly, the ZF 8HP has seen service by a long list of manufacturers in a much longer list of different vehicles. Yes, that arguably started with BMW, who seems to work very closely with ZF, but includes VAG (including Porsche, Lamborghini, Audi...etc), FCA (now Stellantis), Aston Martin, Toyota, Lancia and even some Chinese companies.

ZF is a very successful gearbox manufacturer used by a large chunk of the automotive industry because they, generally, produce an excellent product.

Yes, I know what your point was. I was referring to that jab about how SRT has ZF. ZF transmission is found in numerous commercial vehicles, too, from small delivery trucks to tug vehicles at airports.
I said before; this is the justification of spending that money. It is common when people pay hefty sum for appliance manufacturers and then trying to justify how it is "only" 3sec slower than Porsche (bcs. on track 3sec is apparently nothing) or how they hired BMW engineers; therefore it makes it the same as BMW

It is KIA, and that is about it. Nothing more or less, and it is a decent vehicle.