Decision Time, Would like some input from the forum

[Rod Knock]

will there be any real benefit to switching my CRV to the Castrol at its next change at 15k?

They geared the formulation towards GDI and T-GDI motors a few years ago, already, ahead of everyone else, so fuel dilution was taken into account. I am not a fanboy of any brand, and I look at motor oil like it's a tool to keep my vehicles running. Oil formulations can't be changed overnight due to many factors. On GDI and T-GDI, Castrol seems to be ahead of the curve.

I would imagine the K&N filters are decent.

No, it's not. It's a high-flow filter that escapes a lot of dirt. Their air filters are even worse. BTW, you that saying: The best oil filter is a good air filter. Fram ULTRA (or TITANIUM), Royal Purple (oil filters, not the oil), Purolator BOSS (MANN HUMMEL) are all decent synthetic oil filters. If I missed any, feel free to correct me. If you like K&N oil filter you might as well use a Fram Orange can of death.

 

[kschachn]

No, it's not. It's a high-flow filter that escapes a lot of dirt. Their air filters are even worse. BTW, you that saying: The best oil filter is a good air filter. Fram ULTRA (or TITANIUM), Royal Purple (oil filters, not the oil), Purolator BOSS (MANN HUMMEL) are all decent synthetic oil filters. If I missed any, feel free to correct me. If you like K&N oil filter you might as well use a Fram Orange can of death.

Fram orange can (Extra Guard) filters have shown themselves time and time again on here to give entirely acceptable performance. I don't think anyone has ever posted pictures of one with torn media or separated end caps, and although the efficiency isn't "the best" it's certainly competitive.

Also FWIW a moderator will trim your slang if they see it.

 

[Rod Knock]

Also FWIW a moderator will trim your slang if they see it.

Well, you already quoted me, so it is what it is. I use Fram ULTRA filters for what it's worth, and if I manage to install the FS2 Titanium in my RAM 1500, I will use that as well.

 

[Scuder]

It's always annoying when the company sales representative knows less about the products his own company sells than the customer interested in said product.

Almost always, any person working a phone at a major lube company is not a sales rep. The reps work wholesale accounts, and generally have little face time with John Q. Public.

The people answering phones are probably very limited in what they may say or divulge. If it's a public tech line, don't expect to get specific answers about formulation or performance results on tests. If it's not on a TDS, they don't want or feel the need to share the information for whatever reasons.

If you call a sales line, you'll most likely get information on a retailer, installer, or distributor. If they deem you a legitimate prospect to buy on the wholesale level, you could get referred to a sales rep.

I sold millions of gallons of motor oil over more than three decades, and only on very rare occasions did any of my customers want specific information included on a TDS. What is commonplace discussion on BITOG, is quite rare with the general public.

I didn't write this to beat you up. You make good posts that I enjoy reading. I just wanted to share first hand knowledge.

 

[Speedy3861]

They geared the formulation towards GDI and T-GDI motors a few years ago, already, ahead of everyone else, so fuel dilution was taken into account. I am not a fanboy of any brand, and I look at motor oil like it's a tool to keep my vehicles running. Oil formulations can't be changed overnight due to many factors. On GDI and T-GDI, Castrol seems to be ahead of the curve.


No, it's not. It's a high-flow filter that escapes a lot of dirt. Their air filters are even worse. BTW, you that saying: The best oil filter is a good air filter. Fram ULTRA (or TITANIUM), Royal Purple (oil filters, not the oil), Purolator BOSS (MANN HUMMEL) are all decent synthetic oil filters. If I missed any, feel free to correct me. If you like K&N oil filter you might as well use a Fram Orange can of death.

Good to know, I've always used Honda factory intake filters with good results and the Mobil1 M110A filters. To me, K&N air filters have always provided some amusement, it's simple physics: flow more air, flow more dirt. Air filtration is always a balancing act between restriction & passing particles of a specific size. Honda air filters are a oiled (apparently very lightly) paper design and they test well. Locally, the Fram intake filters cost more than factory, as do the cabin filters. I'm old enough to remember Fram as the "orange can of death", didn't see the logic of protecting a $7,000 engine with a $3 filter. They may have improved, but I'd still go to a Wix product first. Having a long career as a Biomedical Technician and a Gunsmith, I've la few truths: You generally get what you pay for, sometimes less, good and cheap seldom come in the same box. The best rule when it comes to quality: It costs more, buy once, cry once. Locally, the K&N filters are priced higher than the Mobil1. Wasn't aware that the quality had dropped, although I looked at some recently and they were made in Mexico. Hopefully the Mobil1 M110A filters are still decent.

 

[Rod Knock]

Good to know, I've always used Honda factory intake filters with good results and the Mobil1 M110A filters. To me, K&N air filters have always provided some amusement, it's simple physics: flow more air, flow more dirt. Air filtration is always a balancing act between restriction & passing particles of a specific size. Honda air filters are a oiled (apparently very lightly) paper design and they test well. Locally, the Fram intake filters cost more than factory, as do the cabin filters. I'm old enough to remember Fram as the "orange can of death", didn't see the logic of protecting a $7,000 engine with a $3 filter. They may have improved, but I'd still go to a Wix product first. Having a long career as a Biomedical Technician and a Gunsmith, I've la few truths: You generally get what you pay for, sometimes less, good and cheap seldom come in the same box. The best rule when it comes to quality: It costs more, buy once, cry once. Locally, the K&N filters are priced higher than the Mobil1. Wasn't aware that the quality had dropped, although I looked at some recently and they were made in Mexico. Hopefully the Mobil1 M110A filters are still decent.

Thanks for your post. I enjoyed reading it. Mobil 1 doesn't make oil filters, I believe Champion Labs makes them for Mobil 1, and they are just paper media. The ones I mentioned are the only Synthetic filters I know of. Out of those, only Fram Ultra/Titanium and Royal Purple are spun micro-glass, Purolator BOSS is polyethylene, and Wix is some synthetic media. However, folks around here are not happy with Wix filtration. If nothing else, take a look at a Purolator BOSS. The quality is apparent right away when you hold and examine it. Oh, and it's made right here in NC, while Fram Ultra/Titanium is made in MI, IIRC. So they are both made in the USA.

 

[4WD]

Mobil 1 is a blended media … thicker and tougher than paper filters …

 

[Speedy3861]

Thanks for your post. I enjoyed reading it. Mobil 1 doesn't make oil filters, I believe Champion Labs makes them for Mobil 1, and they are just paper media. The ones I mentioned are the only Synthetic filters I know of. Out of those, only Fram Ultra/Titanium and Royal Purple are spun micro-glass, Purolator BOSS is polyethylene, and Wix is some synthetic media. However, folks around here are not happy with Wix filtration. If nothing else, take a look at a Purolator BOSS. The quality is apparent right away when you hold and examine it. Oh, and it's made right here in NC, while Fram Ultra/Titanium is made in MI, IIRC. So they are both made in the USA.

Thanks for the update on both the Mobil1 and Wix, kinda disappointing, I'll take a look at the Purolator Boss and I have a source for the Royal Purple filters. The M1 filters are advertised as a "semi-synthetc " media, don't understand how they can advertise them as a 20k filter, but there's a LOT of caveats there, like following your car manufacturer's directions about changing, Honda's MM usually trips 5% at about 6-7k miles or a year whichever comes first, so there's that. IMHO, even out of warranty I'd NEVER try to push an oil or filter to 20k. Oil is cheap, engines are not, I've been a 4-5k guy for a long time and with these new small-displacement DI Turbocharged engines, leaning closer to 4k more & more.

 

[Rod Knock]

don't understand how they can advertise them as a 20k filter

Looking at cutouts on YouTube, it seems that the Mobil 1 filters have a ton of pleats. That's why they advertise it as a 20K miles filter. It's also marketing. Would you really run that filter on anything for 20K miles? Maybe a lawnmower, lol, because you forget about it. When Semi- or Blend- are associated with the word Synthetic, it can mean anything. So who really knows...

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm old enough to remember Fram as the "orange can of death", didn't see the logic of protecting a $7,000 engine with a $3 filter. They may have improved, but I'd still go to a Wix product first.

Oil filters don't always follow the "you get what you pay for montra". The Fram EG (orange can) is just as efficient as the best WIX filter. As mentioned above the lowly EG shows less failures (torn media, cut ADBVs, leaky base seals, etc) than many other brands. Frams might have been horrible in the past, but ftom an engineering and antedotal viewpoint these days there isn't really anything wrong with them. If you want the best filter for the buck, you can't beat the Ultra/Titanium.

If you want some ISO testing comparisons of some higher end filters, read this thread. This is a case where you're not getting what you pay for.

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I am thinking about running lab tests for an OEM and four aftermarket filters for testing for a Chevy truck. This testing will include ISO 4548-12 multi-pass efficiency and capacity, pressure vs flow hot and cold simulation curves, bubble point/largest pore size, and a collapse/burst test. I...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[4WD]

This is the most I have done on any filter … many at 10k but 16k on a small M1

16K on Mobil 1 M1-102A oil filter

10k+6k runs on 2014 Fusion … great shape … And the PF63E has 5k … all good too …

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[aquariuscsm]

When people speak ill of Fram filters, is this all just some silly urban legend that refuses to go away?

 

[Rod Knock]

When people speak ill of Fram filters, is this all just some silly urban legend that refuses to go away?

It's been only a few years since I haven't seen rusty FRAM filters at Walmart, so it might take a while.

I always wondered what FRAM stands for. I think it stands for: For Running After Midnight.

 

[Speedy3861]

Looking at cutouts on YouTube, it seems that the Mobil 1 filters have a ton of pleats. That's why they advertise it as a 20K miles filter. It's also marketing. Would you really run that filter on anything for 20K miles? Maybe a lawnmower, lol, because you forget about it. When Semi- or Blend- are associated with the word Synthetic, it can mean anything. So who really knows...

So, what I've gleaned from all this is the Mobil1 0W-20 EP & M110A I put in my wife's CRV should give better results than the AFE I've been using in regards to resistance to dropping out of grade and resisting the effects of dilution. The M110A is ok, but the Purolator Boss might be a bit better. As far as my CRV, at 13k, I should consider trying the Castrol Edge 0W-20 EP and Boss or Royal Purple filters. Either oil should work, but the Castrol is more consistent in it's formulation. With the 1.3% dilution I've experienced, probably 4k changes would be prudent as well as a UOA for both to confirm improvement. I think the AFE is off the table for future use in the CRV, even though it did well in my Civics, just doesn't seem to have the base stock fortitude for Honda's 1.5t in the CRV. I've used nothing but the M110A filters for years, but now there may be a better choice.

Thanks for the information and advice. I'll try to post back after the next UOA.

 

[kschachn]

When people speak ill of Fram filters, is this all just some silly urban legend that refuses to go away?

Yes and most often promulgated by individuals that have a demonstrated lack of knowledge in many other areas as well.

 

[LineArrayNut]

When we had the Sonata Turbo 2.0, I changed the spark plugs (always used OEM) every 25K miles. I'm not saying it is a good example to follow, as I did it out of fear. Back then, I read too many reports of blown engines, some of them due to bad spark plugs.

What brand 5W-40 are you using?

I use all different kinds. Mix and match alot. On my last of my stash of the pre gtl pennzoil platinum "Ferrari" oil. I've changed the oil in her 26 times

 

[Speedy3861]

Ok, considering the guidance from YogiTheCat, (Very much appreciated) have pretty much settled on Mobil1 0W-20 EP (also keeping Castrol Edge EP in serious consideration) and staying with the M110A filters. I may add the Fram Ultra to the list, but old experiences die hard. Main question is, I have the Royal Purple filters available to me, are they significantly better than the Mobil1 filters? Both are Champion Labs, and are similar construction, the RP is a smaller amount of synthetic filter media, the M1 is a larger amount of semi-synthetc media. Considering if I'm doing 4-5K intervals, would there be any real-world difference? The RP is a 25 micron filter, the M1 is 30 micron.

 

[LineArrayNut]

All of those filters I've used, they all seemed to work fine, I'd see no difference from my perspective.

 

[Speedy3861]

All of those filters I've used, they all seemed to work fine, I'd see no difference from my perspective.

Having retired from career as a Biomedical Technician, I tend to be, well, a bit particular about details. I tend to test, quantify, evaluate and be generally overly picky about things like this. When it comes to medical equipment, you are trained to work to a set of standards and take few, if any chances. Hard to escape from this mindset. Falls into the "measure THREE times, then cut" thing, except, I usually have to have the measuring device's calibration checked........twice.

 

[ZeeOSix]

"Worked fine" doesn't really mean much of anything when it comes to oil filters. If it didn't show any signs of failure after its use (with a cut open for inspection), then it "worked fine", but tells you nothing about how it actually performed at keeping the oil clean - its main purpose.