So far. Just checking the integrity of the dealership.
Dealership oils
- Thread starter Fa24wrx
- Start date
Just going by instinct, I'd expect to see a good amount of Safety Kleen in dealership bulk tanks.
40 some years ago I spent a summer working at the Amoco refinery in Whiting, Indiana. They canned, in addition to their own brand, Montgomery Ward, International Harvester, John Deere and Ford
As I understand its TOYOTA branded oil, which used to be a MOBIL product (probably still is).
This was true as of my last LEXUS purchase roughly 6mo ago anyway at my local LEX/TOY dealer.
Most use TGMO because the pricing is so cheap compared to major brands:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2024/MC-10253223-9999.pdf
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2024
- Messages
- 1,489
It’s hard to say for certain. Maybe Kendall havoline possibly even Amalie.
0W-20: $3.59 / qt (drum)
0W-16: $4.06 / qt (drum)
0W-8: $11.97 / qt (not available in drums)
How many dealers do we suppose are going to charge the customer for 0W-8 but use 0W-16 bulk oil? There are some juicy profit margins at stake.
Mobil is the blender for Toyota. Toyota probably uses its own recipe for the oil given its knowledge of the composition of the metals and alloys used in its engines.But for the most part should be the same as any other good oils. My Toyota dealer said "Pennzoil Synthetic Blend". But looking inside the engine oil fill hole and Oil filter housing there is lot of carbon and varnish. I doubt if they even use that. Probably some cheapest oil they could find. I have since resorted to changing the oil myself.
The amount of mis-information in this thread is staggering. Seriously people, if you don’t know don’t comment.
Ford - P66 is the OEM - almost every Ford dealership uses motorcraft. Ford comes down very hard and punishes dealers who are not using motorcraft in a big way.
Honda - P66 for bulk - approximately ~90% of Honda stores are on the Honda program nation wide. In my market, we are approximately 97% on this.
Subaru - Majority of Subaru dealers, are actually on the idemitsu program.
Mazda - Idemitsu.
Nissan - Idemitsu.
Kia / Hyundai - Total, but in the process of changing to another manufacturer by 2025.
GM - Mobil at the stores, Mobil / P66 factory fill. I’d guess 80% or more are on the GM/Mobil program. Not 100% sure on the market penetration of this program. As I’m not a Mobil distributor.
Mopar / Stellantis - Pennzoil (Shell) - 80% or greater market penetration. They’re coming back hard on dealerships that went off program recently.
Toyota - Mobil, again probably 80% or so on that. The Toyota program is pretty strong.
Volkswagen group - all over the place and changes semi regularly. Mobil or Shell are the top 2.
BMW - Shell in the U.S.
Mercedes - Fuchs. Because reasons.
You have a very high chance of getting the major who makes it, in your car, if you go to the dealership.
Dealerships are both extremely incentivized and pressured by the OEM, to use the OEM oil programs.
Ford - P66 is the OEM - almost every Ford dealership uses motorcraft. Ford comes down very hard and punishes dealers who are not using motorcraft in a big way.
Honda - P66 for bulk - approximately ~90% of Honda stores are on the Honda program nation wide. In my market, we are approximately 97% on this.
Subaru - Majority of Subaru dealers, are actually on the idemitsu program.
Mazda - Idemitsu.
Nissan - Idemitsu.
Kia / Hyundai - Total, but in the process of changing to another manufacturer by 2025.
GM - Mobil at the stores, Mobil / P66 factory fill. I’d guess 80% or more are on the GM/Mobil program. Not 100% sure on the market penetration of this program. As I’m not a Mobil distributor.
Mopar / Stellantis - Pennzoil (Shell) - 80% or greater market penetration. They’re coming back hard on dealerships that went off program recently.
Toyota - Mobil, again probably 80% or so on that. The Toyota program is pretty strong.
Volkswagen group - all over the place and changes semi regularly. Mobil or Shell are the top 2.
BMW - Shell in the U.S.
Mercedes - Fuchs. Because reasons.
You have a very high chance of getting the major who makes it, in your car, if you go to the dealership.
Dealerships are both extremely incentivized and pressured by the OEM, to use the OEM oil programs.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2024
- Messages
- 674
Is it known whp H/K is going to?
Nissan just changed to Idemitsu a few months ago. The program is still in the roll out phase. So you’ll probably see a change in the oil eventually.
*I* know, because they’re a brand I distribute for in multiple states. And I had a meeting with them regarding it.
That being said, it’s still publicly confidential/under NDA. So, I can’t say in any official capacity or name names.
Some tricks used by OEMs to both incentivize and punish dealerships into buying into their oil programs:
- Parts rebates. Oil programs often counts as a part. So it makes it much easier to hit their monthly goals for their parts rebates. If they hit certain monthly metrics, the dealership will get rebates back on their parts. This could be as high as 3%. Sell a million dollars in parts (including oil) - get 3% back at the end of the month, for example.
- Warranty repair payment rates. If you’re on the bulk program, you will get paid the case price back. (Which is much higher than the bulk rate) on warranty repairs. This means more money for dealerships doing warranty repairs. Not on the program? You get paid the bulk rate, but you have to use case goods. Which means you make a lot less money on warranty repairs.
- Speciality car allocation. Is the dealer fully aligned with the brand? Imaging, sales performance, parts sales performance (including oil program) - you may have a different car allocation when it comes to specific models in that brand.
- Bulk oil equipment allowances - they will pay for bulk oil dispensing equipment, at a certain rate depending on the gallons. Sell 10,000 gallons a year? You might get paid $5,000 or more dollars for your equipment, per contract year. Typically 5 year contracts, sometimes 3 year contracts. Downside? Don’t do the gallons you committed to doing? Your contract is extended without payments. So committed to 10,000 gallons and only do 7,000? Well, that 5 year contract might just turn into a 7 or 8 year contract, or you have to buy your equipment back, to get out of the contract.
- Pricing - OEM pricing sometimes can be fairly aggressive if they don’t have other carrots or sticks.
- Paying for oil changes on new cars. Does your car come with free oil changes for however long? 3 years? 5 years? So many miles? That’s paid for through the oil program. Those dealerships aligned with the OEM will get paid for those oil changes. Not on the oil program? You don’t get paid to do those oil changes. Or paid at a much lower amount.
Other things like marketing payments, dealership imaging / branding can be tied into as well. Oil change specials, or general service specials can be tied into the oil program as well.
Autonation was successful for years of dodging OEM pressure to use their oils and went on a pennzoil program. I know Ford and I heard GM went hard on them to finally cave to the programs through a lot of punishment that cost autonation millions.
- Parts rebates. Oil programs often counts as a part. So it makes it much easier to hit their monthly goals for their parts rebates. If they hit certain monthly metrics, the dealership will get rebates back on their parts. This could be as high as 3%. Sell a million dollars in parts (including oil) - get 3% back at the end of the month, for example.
- Warranty repair payment rates. If you’re on the bulk program, you will get paid the case price back. (Which is much higher than the bulk rate) on warranty repairs. This means more money for dealerships doing warranty repairs. Not on the program? You get paid the bulk rate, but you have to use case goods. Which means you make a lot less money on warranty repairs.
- Speciality car allocation. Is the dealer fully aligned with the brand? Imaging, sales performance, parts sales performance (including oil program) - you may have a different car allocation when it comes to specific models in that brand.
- Bulk oil equipment allowances - they will pay for bulk oil dispensing equipment, at a certain rate depending on the gallons. Sell 10,000 gallons a year? You might get paid $5,000 or more dollars for your equipment, per contract year. Typically 5 year contracts, sometimes 3 year contracts. Downside? Don’t do the gallons you committed to doing? Your contract is extended without payments. So committed to 10,000 gallons and only do 7,000? Well, that 5 year contract might just turn into a 7 or 8 year contract, or you have to buy your equipment back, to get out of the contract.
- Pricing - OEM pricing sometimes can be fairly aggressive if they don’t have other carrots or sticks.
- Paying for oil changes on new cars. Does your car come with free oil changes for however long? 3 years? 5 years? So many miles? That’s paid for through the oil program. Those dealerships aligned with the OEM will get paid for those oil changes. Not on the oil program? You don’t get paid to do those oil changes. Or paid at a much lower amount.
Other things like marketing payments, dealership imaging / branding can be tied into as well. Oil change specials, or general service specials can be tied into the oil program as well.
Autonation was successful for years of dodging OEM pressure to use their oils and went on a pennzoil program. I know Ford and I heard GM went hard on them to finally cave to the programs through a lot of punishment that cost autonation millions.
Last edited:
The amount of QC checks that OEM programs have for their distributors is staggering.
Could you / can you cheat? Yes.
Will you get caught? Also yes. Eventually.
The punishment if you get caught is a flat out removal of your contract. End of story. It’s not worth the risk vs financial investment you have in getting that distributor contract. Anymore, only major players get OEM delivery contracts. And it’s not worth our time to cheat. Companies like mine, Reladyne, Brenntag, etc. it’s just not worth it. We have millions upon millions of dollars invested in these contracts. Cheat to make a few grand more?
Not worth our time vs the risk of losing it and the black eye that comes with it.
Edit:
I can go through the different distribution models if desired. Theres about 3 of them.
Last edited:
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Castrol since February 2021.
Kia dealerships in a Charlotte area use ConocoPhillips. Hyundai uses Quaker State. No idea what they put in my new to me Mazda (had 4,000 miles on it. Dealer loaner car, never sold until I bought it.). They did the oil change before I picked it up. Just says 5W-20 on invoice and on sticker. Nothing else.
- Joined
- May 31, 2024
- Messages
- 511
^ This^
I witnessed oil samples taken by both VW, and Honda reps, at dealers.
There would have been very obvious repercussions if there were problems, as manufacturers don't like paying for failures.
The landfills are full enough, badmouthing bulk is not the way to go.
Maybe some aftermarket shops can get away with using an inferior product, but most dealers probably have guardrails.
I worked at a GM dealer for 12 years up until 1994. We never tested our bulk tanks. Our local distributor filled them with Quaker State. You could buy GM labeled oil(ac delco) at the parts counter. I also witnessed the only oil related engine failures of my lifetime when Quaker State was solidifying under a certain temperature. They replaced hundreds of engines at our dealer.
I was under the impression that shell took some of it back due to distribution issues with Castrol. But, I’m a distributor for neither. So I’m not directly “in the know.”
