Dealership oils

[edyvw]

I was under the impression that shell took some of it back due to distribution issues with Castrol. But, I’m a distributor for neither. So I’m not directly “in the know.”

Castrol took over in the US, and some other parts of the world kept Shell, but Europe went Castrol too recently.
Now, did Shell jump in to fill some void? Possible.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Castrol took over in the US, and some other parts of the world kept Shell, but Europe went Castrol too recently.
Now, did Shell jump in to fill some void? Possible.

That whole Castrol / Shell thing is confusing as it is in the U.S. let alone a OEM brand on top of it. Who’s making what, for who, where and when…

 

[Foxtrot08]

^ This^
I witnessed oil samples taken by both VW, and Honda reps, at dealers.
There would have been very obvious repercussions if there were problems, as manufacturers don't like paying for failures.
The landfills are full enough, badmouthing bulk is not the way to go.
Maybe some aftermarket shops can get away with using an inferior product, but most dealers probably have guardrails.

We are Honda, Motorcraft and Idemitsu (Subaru, Mazda, Nissan).


Honda is a buy back model. So we buy it from P66, tank it, deliver it and get paid a flat fee per gallon. We are nothing but UPS. They audit us monthly electronically with gallons purchased vs gallons received. And the dealerships are audited with Gallons purchased, gallons sold. Along with electronic tank monitors.


Motorcraft is on our paper. We buy it from Motorcraft (via P66), we can set the price but we have a ford recommended price. Plus there is an incentive for dealerships to go with the program, via cash or equipment from our end, that is matched by Ford.


Idemitsu we are simply a delivery agent again. Buy back model. We tank it, deliver it. They audit how much we sell every month by product line. Match that with the gallons the dealerships sold.


For motorcraft, we literally wrote the QC program for them a number of years ago. They had a problem with cheating probably about a decade ago. So they turned to us on “how would you stop it?” As we are the largest in the U.S. (Same with Honda.). Every delivery a sample is retained.

 

[Jetronic]

When I started working at the Hyundai/mitsubishi dealership, they used Castrol Magnatec OE 5W-40 (it's green), then switched to 5W-30 castrol, but forgot now which designation. That was no longer green. Then they signed a contact with Total and used 5W-30 quartz ineo MDC.

The oils were chosen to have approvals for all the engines in the cars we sold, Mitsubishi used VW TDI PD diesels in some cars so we needed VW PD 505.01 approval.

But this is in Europe, there was no OEM oil program.

 

[userfriendly]

The trucks that go around collecting used engine oil and other fluids from new car dealerships are getting very good product compared to what drains out of a steel mill, power plant or pulp mill for example.

I suppose they can’t charge money for it, just be happy that someone will take it away for free.

 

[Mechanician]

We are Honda, Motorcraft and Idemitsu (Subaru, Mazda, Nissan).


Honda is a buy back model. So we buy it from P66, tank it, deliver it and get paid a flat fee per gallon. We are nothing but UPS. They audit us monthly electronically with gallons purchased vs gallons received. And the dealerships are audited with Gallons purchased, gallons sold. Along with electronic tank monitors.


Motorcraft is on our paper. We buy it from Motorcraft (via P66), we can set the price but we have a ford recommended price. Plus there is an incentive for dealerships to go with the program, via cash or equipment from our end, that is matched by Ford.


Idemitsu we are simply a delivery agent again. Buy back model. We tank it, deliver it. They audit how much we sell every month by product line. Match that with the gallons the dealerships sold.


For motorcraft, we literally wrote the QC program for them a number of years ago. They had a problem with cheating probably about a decade ago. So they turned to us on “how would you stop it?” As we are the largest in the U.S. (Same with Honda.). Every delivery a sample is retained.

I'm not sure why anyone would get the impression, that manufacturers would allow dealers to use whatever crap oil they want, in the engines that manufactures have to warranty. Just simply makes no sense.

 

[Foxtrot08]

The trucks that go around collecting used engine oil and other fluids from new car dealerships are getting very good product compared to what drains out of a steel mill, power plant or pulp mill for example.

I suppose they can’t charge money for it, just be happy that someone will take it away for free.

They can pay for it. And they can charge for it. Depends on the natural gas market and the competition. What sort of outlet do people have for it.

Around here it’s generally paid 50 cents a gallon.

 

[kschachn]

I'm not sure why anyone would get the impression, that manufacturers would allow dealers to use whatever crap oil they want, in the engines that manufactures have to warranty. Just simply makes no sense.

Who was saying that? Anything that meets a needed license or approval, not “crap”. Just not OEM branded oil.

 

[Foxtrot08]

I'm not sure why anyone would get the impression, that manufacturers would allow dealers to use whatever crap oil they want, in the engines that manufactures have to warranty. Just simply makes no sense.

Don’t get me wrong, some manufacturers like Kia / Hyuandi mailed in their programs. Partnering with Total in the U.S.? With what distributors? They don’t have a presence here. So of course dealers will shop that.

The mopar program was completely crap a few years ago. Priced way too highly and incentivized the dealers to look at house brands or other brands. But that has changed.

Honda before P66 was in the same boat.


But these car manufacturers have learned you can make oil a profit or service center.

 

[Mechanician]

Who was saying that? Anything that meets a needed license or approval, not “crap”. Just not OEM branded oil.

I guess you weren't following along?

Usually oil from local oil companies also sale fuel oil, machine oil, etc…
They will use the same tanker for all.
That’s your “free oil changes” oil!

I would bet the dealers and most quick oil change shops don’t even have different viscosities or grades of oil. There is probably a huge drum of some bulk 5w-20 that goes into anything that comes in.

Yes, even the Mercedes dealer uses the questionable oil. Do your own oil changes folks.

 

[DFWoilguy]

When I worked @ GM dealer they were using Mobil bulk. Not sure what version of it ?? 5000, M1, Super or Full Synthetic??

I do remember a common transmission issue with the HD trucks and some engineer coming down from Flint and making a rule that ONLY Mobil 1 ATF was to be the ONLY trans fluid to be used to keep warranty claims

 

[kschachn]

I guess you weren't following along?

Agreed, lots of uninformed speculation there.

I’ve always thought if you want to know what somebody is using then ask about it. if you don’t like the answer then go somewhere else.

 

[bdcardinal]

We have 5 bulk tanks, all with Motorcraft oil. 2 of the 120gal tanks have MC 0W20 full synthetic. 1 120gal tank has MC 10W30 diesel. 1 240gal tank has MC5W30 blend, and the 360gal tank has MC 5W20 blend. We are also a Mazda dealer but don't use their bulk oil program as has been stated, the Ford RIM loyalty thing is a much bigger deal for us. Everything else we have in bottles in parts. I bill out what the manual shows the vehicle should have. I can't control what goes in the cars, and I guarantee at the end of the month when we dip tanks, the numbers are all over the place compared to what we show on hand.

There are at least 2 Motorcraft oil distributors in our area. The one we use was bought out last year and there was a really rough patch where we were going to switch because of billing issues. Also I wasn't happy when they fought me on changing the tank with 15W40 diesel to 10W30 diesel. I proved it needed to be changed based on the number of FL1995A (7.3L) and FL-2016 (6.0 and 6.4L) oil filters we sold compared to the FL-2051S now FL-2124S 6.7L filters we sold. Literally it took months for them to change it out and I literally had to change the lock on the 15W40 tank and make a "do not fill" sign on it.

We carry the Mazda 0W20 high moly in bottles in parts because those occasionally do sell over the counter. I do find it funny that we sell more of the Motorcraft Full Syn Manual Trans Fluid over the counter to Mazda owners than Ford owners. Also all filters are either Motorcraft or Mazda. We also have some of the Omnicraft filters for competitive make vehicles. If I don't have something stock for a competitive make (non Ford/Lincoln/Mercury or Mazda) I will try to get Wix or Microguard from O'Reilzone or else ACDelco from a Motorcraft supplier that carries ACDelco. I unfortunately usually only find out about those when the tech is at the counter and the vehicle is on the lift with the oil draining. If I get some lead time, I have more options like Hengst, Mahle, Mann for Euro stuff.

 

[edyvw]

That whole Castrol / Shell thing is confusing as it is in the U.S. let alone a OEM brand on top of it. Who’s making what, for who, where and when…

BMW always changed its suppliers on regular basis: FINA, TOTAL, TOTAL/FINA, Castrol, Shell, Castrol.
But BMW did require Shell to make specific BMW oils like TwinPowerTurbo M 0W40, which had exceptional numbers. Shell-made BMW TPT 5W30 had Noack 6.8% and HTHS above 3.6cP. SO, it is possible that Castrol is making something specific too.

 

[Foxtrot08]

BMW always changed its suppliers on regular basis: FINA, TOTAL, TOTAL/FINA, Castrol, Shell, Castrol.
But BMW did require Shell to make specific BMW oils like TwinPowerTurbo M 0W40, which had exceptional numbers. Shell-made BMW TPT 5W30 had Noack 6.8% and HTHS above 3.6cP. SO, it is possible that Castrol is making something specific too.

Yeah I know they change suppliers every 3-5 years or so. It’s often. A lot of the “shell” made stuff. Or “castrol” made stuff is made by a toll blender like Pinnacle.


That’s the whole joke, neither shell or BP/castrol really blend their own stuff in the US. They sub it all out.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah I know they change suppliers every 3-5 years or so. It’s often. A lot of the “shell” made stuff. Or “castrol” made stuff is made by a toll blender like Pinnacle.


That’s the whole joke, neither shell or BP/castrol really blend their own stuff in the US. They sub it all out.

That is fine, except it is still their formula. I really don't know where BP/Castrol blends stuff in US or Pennzoil. Castrol imports bunch of stuff from Europe too.

 

[Tom NJ]

Some tricks used by OEMs to both incentivize and punish dealerships into buying into their oil programs:

- Parts rebates. Oil programs often counts as a part. So it makes it much easier to hit their monthly goals for their parts rebates. If they hit certain monthly metrics, the dealership will get rebates back on their parts. This could be as high as 3%. Sell a million dollars in parts (including oil) - get 3% back at the end of the month, for example.

- Warranty repair payment rates. If you’re on the bulk program, you will get paid the case price back. (Which is much higher than the bulk rate) on warranty repairs. This means more money for dealerships doing warranty repairs. Not on the program? You get paid the bulk rate, but you have to use case goods. Which means you make a lot less money on warranty repairs.

- Speciality car allocation. Is the dealer fully aligned with the brand? Imaging, sales performance, parts sales performance (including oil program) - you may have a different car allocation when it comes to specific models in that brand.


- Bulk oil equipment allowances - they will pay for bulk oil dispensing equipment, at a certain rate depending on the gallons. Sell 10,000 gallons a year? You might get paid $5,000 or more dollars for your equipment, per contract year. Typically 5 year contracts, sometimes 3 year contracts. Downside? Don’t do the gallons you committed to doing? Your contract is extended without payments. So committed to 10,000 gallons and only do 7,000? Well, that 5 year contract might just turn into a 7 or 8 year contract, or you have to buy your equipment back, to get out of the contract.

- Pricing - OEM pricing sometimes can be fairly aggressive if they don’t have other carrots or sticks.

- Paying for oil changes on new cars. Does your car come with free oil changes for however long? 3 years? 5 years? So many miles? That’s paid for through the oil program. Those dealerships aligned with the OEM will get paid for those oil changes. Not on the oil program? You don’t get paid to do those oil changes. Or paid at a much lower amount.

Other things like marketing payments, dealership imaging / branding can be tied into as well. Oil change specials, or general service specials can be tied into the oil program as well.


Autonation was successful for years of dodging OEM pressure to use their oils and went on a pennzoil program. I know Ford and I heard GM went hard on them to finally cave to the programs through a lot of punishment that cost autonation millions.

This is good information. Having assisted with PQIA for many years I know there are unscrupulous distributors out there peddling junk oil, even personally saw some in an oil change shop. It's good to know that dealerships have tight controls and strong incentives to use only quality oil, and it is highly unlikely that junk oil can find its way into their shops.

 

[Urshurak776]

Quick update to my last post in this thread about my local Mazda dealership. I picked up my license plate yesterday and asked them what the bulk oil was and they said Mobil 1. So, ? May or may not be true....

 

[cptbarkey]

Quick update to my last post in this thread about my local Mazda dealership. I picked up my license plate yesterday and asked them what the bulk oil was and they said Mobil 1. So, ? May or may not be true....

Mobil 1 seems cheap and a diluted brand these days anyway.

 

[JustinH]

Principle Hyundai Boerne TX uses Mobil 1 on my 3 years maintenance on our santa cruz.