Reasons NOT to use Kirkland 0w-20 or 5W-30 Synthetic...?

[Bill7]

There was no lawsuit. This has been discussed multiple times on here. No judge ruled anything.

And the technical part of your description isn’t correct either. Castrol wasn’t the first to call hydrocracked base stock as synthetic. Mobil and others were doing it too, all over the world.

This story about a lawsuit and a judge and what Castrol did and did not do just keeps being misrepresented year after year.

This is on Amsoil's website:

https://blog.amsoil.com/are-all-synthetic-oil-groups-the-same-group-iii-vs-iv-vs-v/#:~:text=Mobil charged that Castrol was,contained 100 percent mineral oil.

A quote from the above link is pasted below.

A famous lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol changed that. Mobil charged that Castrol was falsely marketing its Syntec motor oil as a synthetic oil although it wasn’t made from PAO base oils. Mobil’s claim was based on results of independent lab testing that showed samples of Syntec it obtained as early as December 1997 contained 100 percent mineral oil.

The two sides battled it out, but in a landmark 1999 ruling, the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol Syntec, as then formulated, was a “synthetic” motor oil.

 

[burbguy82]

I am not knocking the brand at all. But its unlikely that it is better made than any other vehicle. I did just out of curiosity google it and didn't find the brand "special". Could you enlighten me on "why"? Again..not being argumentative.

I think that there is a bunch of evidence to support Lexus as being better made than most as a brand..... Of course it is not with every model, of every year. Specifically those made from 90, to 2019.....basically their whole history

But in general, their flagship vehicles such as the legendary ls400, LX470 and LX570, SC430, as examples last for obscenely high miles, and have very little failures, as a normal.

Interior materials and build is very high, every bit as high as other "high end cars", and with Lexus, they hold their value.......unlike many MB and BMWs, which are the main competitors.

I will say that new Lexus vehicles are getting not as good as they used to be, but that seems par for the course.

I have no doubt some mechanics on here would back this up, like @AutoMechanic for instance. And some will not.

But this is just an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

 

[tired]

This is on Amsoil's website:

https://blog.amsoil.com/are-all-synthetic-oil-groups-the-same-group-iii-vs-iv-vs-v/#:~:text=Mobil charged that Castrol was,contained 100 percent mineral oil.

A quote from the above link is pasted below.

A famous lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol changed that. Mobil charged that Castrol was falsely marketing its Syntec motor oil as a synthetic oil although it wasn’t made from PAO base oils. Mobil’s claim was based on results of independent lab testing that showed samples of Syntec it obtained as early as December 1997 contained 100 percent mineral oil.

The two sides battled it out, but in a landmark 1999 ruling, the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol Syntec, as then formulated, was a “synthetic” motor oil.

Looks like they got it wrong too.

They didn't sue. They filed a complaint with the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.

 

[burbguy82]

Because they are toyotas with the only shoot yourself in the foot factor (build it outside of Japan) ruled out ?
Because they still design their cars with more than the first owner in mind ?

I think the made in japan models are in fact better made than the ones that are not. Recently, at a dealer, I was looking at an LS500, 5.0 NA V8, what a car!....anyways, it has a fillable, lead acid battery.......the same one that is in one of my Kubotas.......that is 12 years old, and still working great.

 

[kschachn]

This is on Amsoil's website:

https://blog.amsoil.com/are-all-synthetic-oil-groups-the-same-group-iii-vs-iv-vs-v/#:~:text=Mobil charged that Castrol was,contained 100 percent mineral oil.

A quote from the above link is pasted below.

A famous lawsuit between Mobil and Castrol changed that. Mobil charged that Castrol was falsely marketing its Syntec motor oil as a synthetic oil although it wasn’t made from PAO base oils. Mobil’s claim was based on results of independent lab testing that showed samples of Syntec it obtained as early as December 1997 contained 100 percent mineral oil.

The two sides battled it out, but in a landmark 1999 ruling, the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol Syntec, as then formulated, was a “synthetic” motor oil.

Huh. That’s something. People should be more sure of their facts before they post things to the Internet.

 

[tired]

I think the made in japan models are in fact better made than the ones that are not. Recently, at a dealer, I was looking at an LS500, 5.0 NA V8, what a car!....anyways, it has a fillable, lead acid battery.......the same one that is in one of my Kubotas.......that is 12 years old, and still working great.

Yes the Tahara Toyota plant in Japan is legendary. The vehicles that come out of there are very well made and last so long.

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

From what I've read, 99% of all synthetic oils are group III. Only Redline, HPL are Group V, and Amsoil is Group IV (PAO).
I prefer GTL oils (Ex Pennzoil Platinum) to PAO oils, as PAO oils have been known to shrink oil seals which can cause oil leaks.

If anyone has a list of which Mobil 1 oils contain PAO (Group IV) or Esthers / ANs (Group V), please post it.

Ehh…from all the past data sheets I’ve seen Mobil 1 products typically have a mix of different base oils including group IV and pao. EP and the discontinued AP topped the list. Euro and ESP meet extremely strict certifications as well and I doubt those are doing it as a group III

 

[Glenda W.]

Mobil 1’s top offerings were either GTL/PAO/AN or GTL/PAO/ESTER. LSJR had a vid where he did testing in HPL’s lab. The euro oils as well as EP and Truck & SUV were tested.

An $18 jug of synthetic oil is mostly group 3 and 2 and is a cookie cutter package already approved.

 

[Bill7]

Mobil 1’s top offerings were either GTL/PAO/AN or GTL/PAO/ESTER. LSJR had a vid where he did testing in HPL’s lab. The euro oils as well as EP and Truck & SUV were tested.

An $18 jug of synthetic oil is mostly group 3 and 2 and is a cookie cutter package already approved.

View attachment 272461

View attachment 272462

Thanks. Would anyone know if Mobil 1 ESP X2 5W-30 oil contains either PAO or Ester, and if so what percentage of each. Probably this is unknown due to Mobil 1 having a proprietary formula, but asking just in case anyone has info on this.

If it did have either PAO or Ester, it would be an incredible bargain at the $27.97 price we can get a 5 quart jug of it for at Walmart.

 

[Patman]

Thanks. Would anyone know if Mobil 1 ESP X2 5W-30 oil contains either PAO or Ester, and if so what percentage of each. Probably this is unknown due to Mobil 1 having a proprietary formula, but asking just in case anyone has info on this.

If it did have either PAO or Ester, it would be an incredible bargain at the $27.97 price we can get a 5 quart jug of it for at Walmart.

There is no such thing as ESP x2 5w30. The only x2 version of ESP is the 0w20. The 5w30 is simply called ESP 5w30. The newest formula appears to no longer use esters.

 

[radiometer]

There is no such thing as ESP x2 5w30. The only x2 version of ESP is the 0w20. The 5w30 is simply called ESP 5w30. The newest formula appears to no longer use esters.

Thanks Patman. I had wondered about the x2 as I had no idea of what it is. You answered that question for me.

 

[tired]

Thanks Patman. I had wondered about the x2 as I had no idea of what it is. You answered that question for me.

Yeah I also didn't know what the x2 business was. Is there no more ESP x2? Is there just one M1 ESP?

 

[tired]

Mobil 1’s top offerings were either GTL/PAO/AN or GTL/PAO/ESTER. LSJR had a vid where he did testing in HPL’s lab. The euro oils as well as EP and Truck & SUV were tested.

An $18 jug of synthetic oil is mostly group 3 and 2 and is a cookie cutter package already approved.

View attachment 272461

View attachment 272462

How would one decide among M1 EP, Truck and SUV, and ESP? They all seem good?

 

[kschachn]

How would one decide among M1 EP, Truck and SUV, and ESP? They all seem good?

I go by the manufacturer approvals the oil holds or does not hold. Those are guarantees of performance. Anything else is marketing, which may or may not be significant.

 

[tired]

I go by the manufacturer approvals the oil holds or does not hold. Those are guarantees of performance. Anything else is marketing, which may or may not be significant.

Thanks. Based on the vehicles in your signature, you don't have any besides maybe the Tiguan that require Euro approvals? Do you select oils then that have the Euro approvals because of the guaranteed performance? Or do you just mean for non-Euro engines, you just pick an SP rated oil?

 

[kschachn]

Thanks. Based on the vehicles in your signature, you don't have any besides maybe the Tiguan that require Euro approvals? Do you select oils then that have the Euro approvals because of the guaranteed performance? Or do you just mean for non-Euro engines, you just pick an SP rated oil?

Given the fact that synthetic oils with approvals are essentially the same price at Walmart, that’s all I use unless something comes up that is on a super-sale such as that Amazon 0W-40 everybody got for like $2 per 5-quarts (or whatever it was).

In my little world, oils with VW 504 00 or BMW Longlife-04 are pretty much a universal oil.

 

[Patman]

Yeah I also didn't know what the x2 business was. Is there no more ESP x2? Is there just one M1 ESP?

There is an M1 ESP x2, but it’s just the 0w20.

 

[tired]

Given the fact that synthetic oils with approvals are essentially the same price at Walmart, that’s all I use unless something comes up that is on a super-sale such as that Amazon 0W-40 everybody got for like $2 per 5-quarts (or whatever it was).

In my little world, oils with VW 504 00 or BMW Longlife-04 are pretty much a universal oil.

Thank you for the reply. Based on your advice here, I feel like this is the best evidence-supported approach. After I run VRP for 4 runs to get back to a clean baseline given the history in my cars, I think I will also adopt your algorithm (if I understand correctly) of using whatever Euro-approved oil is on sale at Walmart in a 30 weight or higher, then if none, then select M1 ESP. That's what I've been able to glean from your replies, at least. Perhaps there's an error in my synthesis of your posts.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Whatever formulations someone could glean before could be different today. Remember that Mobil1 has a vast amount of resources to the commodities that make up their oils and things such as plant outages, supply gluts or commodity pricing could influence the formulation from batch run to batch run.

It is manufacturing in the end to come up with a product that meets the specifications. And probably why they do t reveal much about the formulation given them the manufacturing g flexibility to adapt on the fly.

 

[Bill7]

I go by the manufacturer approvals the oil holds or does not hold. Those are guarantees of performance. Anything else is marketing, which may or may not be significant.

I do the same thing. I prefer to use oils that have either Dexos 1 Gen 3 or a European approval like MB 229.5x. The idea of saying that Brand A is better than Brand B if both oils have the same approval is not relevant for me.

The oils with the more stringent certification is likely the better oil. I'd rather have a cheap oil that meets a stringent certification, than an expensive oil which doesn't. HPL is the only exception to this - it is better than most if not all oils.