Reasons NOT to use Kirkland 0w-20 or 5W-30 Synthetic...?

Someone who would rather drive a Lexus than a Hyundai is not a snob.

Someone who would drive a Lexus because they would not be seen dead in a Hyundai is a snob.
100%

I think everyone is a snob in at least one thing.

I drive a Lexus because they are likely the most well-made car out there, not for status. For that I drive my 1986 Chevy Truck!
 
I drive a Lexus because they are likely the most well-made car out there, not for status.
I am not knocking the brand at all. But its unlikely that it is better made than any other vehicle. I did just out of curiosity google it and didn't find the brand "special". Could you enlighten me on "why"? Again..not being argumentative.
 
Because they are toyotas with the only shoot yourself in the foot factor (build it outside of Japan) ruled out ?
Because they still design their cars with more than the first owner in mind ?
 
That's a good summary. Thanks for putting that all together.

Does HPL not have any group III? I don't know.

Is part of the difference among Supertech and Kirkland vs more expensive OTS brands like Pennzoil, QS, Castrol, M1 the percentage of group III? Kind of like how the new AMSOIL synthetic blend is 50% synthetic whereas a lot of other synthetic blends are maybe 5-10% synthetic? M1 ESP 0W-30 at least has some esters too which you don't find in the Warren Distribution oils.
HPL has group III base oil for some of it's blends, but that is fine, because regardless of the base oil, all HPL oils have the added Group V Ester and AN as well.
 
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Because they are toyotas with the only shoot yourself in the foot factor (build it outside of Japan) ruled out ?
Because they still design their cars with more than the first owner in mind ?
Toyota / Lexus in general design their cars to go 300k miles with minimal repairs.
They also have very conservative (aka boring) styling, but perhaps that helps them focus most of their time on the extensive quality assurance they do so their vehicles last 300k miles.

I view Toyota / Lexus as the opposite of Mercedes. Mercedes puts all their emphasis on styling, but their quality assurance doesn't seem to translate into reliable Mercedes vehicles. Mercedes (and BMW too) seem to make many of their partsout of cheap plastic which they know will brake after a few years. So you could sped $100,000 on a new Mercedes, only to find out that most of it's critical parts are made of cheap plastic and prone to breaking after a few years, costing you thousands to repair parts there weren't made correctly to begin with.
 
100%

I think everyone is a snob in at least one thing.

I drive a Lexus because they are likely the most well-made car out there, not for status. For that I drive my 1986 Chevy Truck!
The only think I don't like about Lexus, Acura, and Infinity, is they require you to buy premium fuel, which could add $15 extra to every tankful. Might not sound like a lot, but over a few decades of ownership, it will really add up to several thousands of dollars extra.
 
Is it confirmed through any sources that r&p is comprised of only group 3?
From what I've read, 99% of all synthetic oils are group III. Only Redline, HPL are Group V, and Amsoil is Group IV (PAO).
I prefer GTL oils (Ex Pennzoil Platinum) to PAO oils, as PAO oils have been known to shrink oil seals which can cause oil leaks.

If anyone has a list of which Mobil 1 oils contain PAO (Group IV) or Esthers / ANs (Group V), please post it.
 
From what I've read, 99% of all synthetic oils are group III. Only Redline, HPL are Group V, and Amsoil is Group IV (PAO).
I prefer GTL oils (Ex Pennzoil Platinum) to PAO oils, as PAO oils have been known to shrink oil seals which can cause oil leaks.

If anyone has a list of which Mobil 1 oils contain PAO (Group IV) or Esthers / ANs (Group V), please post it.
It changes often enough that these lists would need to be updated frequently. M1 is constantly tweaking the ingredients in their base oils.
 
The only think I don't like about Lexus, Acura, and Infinity, is they require you to buy premium fuel, which could add $15 extra to every tankful. Might not sound like a lot, but over a few decades of ownership, it will really add up to several thousands of dollars extra.
I'm not sure if all of them do, but yes, many times they tune the engines to require premium. Even times when they use the same engine as a Toyota (like the 2UZ-FE) they will tune it differently.
 
From what I've read, 99% of all synthetic oils are group III. Only Redline, HPL are Group V, and Amsoil is Group IV (PAO).
I prefer GTL oils (Ex Pennzoil Platinum) to PAO oils, as PAO oils have been known to shrink oil seals which can cause oil leaks.

If anyone has a list of which Mobil 1 oils contain PAO (Group IV) or Esthers / ANs (Group V), please post it.
Group III only? I thought that in order to be a synthetic it needed more than just group III.
 
They are actually not they likely filter at 30 microns where Fram Ultra/Titanium filter at 20 microns.
Don't fret about the intake valves carboning up. They are gonna' do that no matter what. I have done 5 cleanings with the CRC stuff and subaru has done the cleaning with their product. I have 48K on my Forester XT and will get the walnut blasting done shortly.
Let me correct my statement, they're the best of what Subaru had (has) to offer compared to the made in Indonesia or USA (Fram rebranded) filters. I'm good with using them, I'll make sure and do the 6mo OCI as I just don't drive much. But again, when I do I make sure to bring the engine to NOT no matter what. And my drive thru the "hood" to my garage is ~ .6 mile so nice easy slow going for both leaving for my drive, and coming home as well. Let that turbo get some easy time! Thanks much.
 
Group III only? I thought that in order to be a synthetic it needed more than just group III.
There was a lawsuit decades ago, where Castrol was the first company to call a group III oil synthetic.
Mobil 1 at the time had PAO's and Ester's in their synthetics, and Mobil 1 sued Castrol and lost.
The judge ruled Castrol had proved that group III went through enough transformations from Dino oil to have it's molecules more aligned, and could be called synthetic. At that point, Mobil 1 was in a position where their competitor could produce the Group III oil so much cheaper than Mobil 1's PAO / Ester synthetics, that Mobil 1 had to cheapen it's synthetic's to group III to be competitive. Ever since then, nearly all synthetic oil is group III (which is a bad thing for consumers in my opinion).
 
There was a lawsuit decades ago, where Castrol was the first company to call a group III oil synthetic.
Mobil 1 at the time had PAO's and Ester's in their synthetics, and Mobil 1 sued Castrol and lost.
The judge ruled Castrol had proved that group III went through enough transformations from Dino oil to have it's molecules more aligned, and could be called synthetic. At that point, Mobil 1 was in a position where their competitor could produce the Group III oil so much cheaper than Mobil 1's PAO / Ester synthetics, that Mobil 1 had to cheapen it's synthetic's to group III to be competitive. Ever since then, nearly all synthetic oil is group III (which is a bad thing for consumers in my opinion).
Why? Because group 3 is fundamentally worse than group 4?
 
There was a lawsuit decades ago, where Castrol was the first company to call a group III oil synthetic.
Mobil 1 at the time had PAO's and Ester's in their synthetics, and Mobil 1 sued Castrol and lost.
The judge ruled Castrol had proved that group III went through enough transformations from Dino oil to have it's molecules more aligned, and could be called synthetic. At that point, Mobil 1 was in a position where their competitor could produce the Group III oil so much cheaper than Mobil 1's PAO / Ester synthetics, that Mobil 1 had to cheapen it's synthetic's to group III to be competitive. Ever since then, nearly all synthetic oil is group III (which is a bad thing for consumers in my opinion).
There was no lawsuit. This has been discussed multiple times on here. No judge ruled anything.

And the technical part of your description isn’t correct either. Castrol wasn’t the first to call hydrocracked base stock as synthetic. Mobil and others were doing it too, all over the world.

This story about a lawsuit and a judge and what Castrol did and did not do just keeps being misrepresented year after year.
 
So what's the real story ?
Really? You forgot the discussion in this thread where you participated?

 
I have not, but I didn't have the link to the real story in that other thread - just the affirmation that I was wrong, which I'm ok with 😇
 
Good grief BITOG old posts are hard and annoying to read. Whatever change they made in recent years broke all the old quoting functionality. Terrible design decision.
 
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