BMW LL04 and LL12FE in Australia with high sulphur content in fuel?

[Haakon]

do you have 100 octane there? if do,then use this,bcs. if fuel is as bad as some countries in Europe then in order to get 95 you must fill with 100 octane gas

We have 91, 95 and 98 octane - European octane numbers, not US. The fuel quality is well regulated for 91 and 95 and you can be confident these fuels are what they say on the tin.

98 though is mostly marketing and tends to 96-97 on average. Its a high profit margin fuel they spend a lot on marketing for, and legally only needs to meet the requirements for 95 to be sold! But mostly people have zero clue about what octane actually is and many buy it for the "performance" lol.

We also have E10 in some areas thats 91 with a 10% ethanol blend, and of course some (hard to find) E85 for the guys with heavily modified and tuned toys

 

[Haakon]

I just picked up a 2018 X4 M40i with the B58 engine. Awesome car, but I have some questions regarding BMW's recommended oil specifications.

The owners manual specifies that LL-04 and LL-12FE are the approved specifications for the car. This seems strange for an Australian market vehicle however, as I have read that these oils don't play nice with petrol that has any more than 10ppm sulphur content. Premium grade fuel here in Australia is allowed to have up to 50ppm sulphur levels, so it would seem that using the recommended oil specs here is unadvisable...?

My question is, should I be running LL01 instead, even when it isn't officially approved for use according to the owners manual?

I would appreciate some advice from more experienced individuals here, as I want to ensure the engine gets the best oil possible.

Dont over think it. You dont have a GPF, and an ACEA mid/high Saps oil is not going to hurt the catalyst.

How many kms on it? And have the previous owners followed BMW's ludicrously long service intervals? I hope not...

A big problem for European cars in Australia is that they spec European oils and service intervals for Australian fuel and driving conditions - not a great idea. A rule of thumb is to half the service intervals.

I made a choice to use an ACEA A3/B4 Shell Helix Ultra in 5w40 instead of the C3 0w30 oil Alfa Romeo specify (I have the Euro 6 version where they went to 0w30 for economy where the same engine in the Euro 5 spec was 5w40) - and I halve the 15K kms servicing to 7500kms. I do mostly short trips around Hobart though which is slow and cold a lot which isn't great.

 

[Haakon]

I think another reason the euros always spec a C low saps is simply because so many cars are diesels and they want to streamline/simplify the servicing game by using the same oils. Which they can get away with when the fuel quality is as good as theirs is...

The petrol engines though are arguably happier on the mid/high saps.

 

[svenson]

I think another reason the euros always spec a C low saps is simply because so many cars are diesels and they want to streamline/simplify the servicing game by using the same oils. Which they can get away with when the fuel quality is as good as theirs is...

The petrol engines though are arguably happier on the mid/high saps.

how do you conclude that? is there a scientific result or just a personal speculation?

 

[Haakon]

how do you conclude that? is there a scientific result or just a personal speculation?

Tend to be high HTHS numbers. I was particularly interested in this as my Alfa Romeo engine has a cam over flat bucket tappets. It’s less of an issue on most modern engines that have roller rockers though.

 

[Haakon]

how do you conclude that? is there a scientific result or just a personal speculation?

Also, resists acidification by the ****ty Australian petrol better…

 

[TasBMW]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies here, some very valuable info. Sorry I haven't had the chance to reply to people individually. Glad that it has been discovered that there are no GPF's in Australia as I was unsure on that.

I recently took the car to my local BMW specialist who services my other cars. I didn't mention anything about oil as I was keen to see what he would use. He ended up putting in Ravenol HLS 5w30 which is an LL04 spec mid saps oil.

Do you think this will be fine provided I change it every 10,000km/1 year and only use 95 or 98 octane fuel (50ppm sulphur)?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies here, some very valuable info. Sorry I haven't had the chance to reply to people individually. Glad that it has been discovered that there are no GPF's in Australia as I was unsure on that.

I recently took the car to my local BMW specialist who services my other cars. I didn't mention anything about oil as I was keen to see what he would use. He ended up putting in Ravenol HLS 5w30 which is an LL04 spec mid saps oil.

Do you think this will be fine provided I change it every 10,000km/1 year and only use 95 or 98 octane fuel (50ppm sulphur)?

I wouldn't sweat it for 6k miles.

 

[kschachn]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies here, some very valuable info. Sorry I haven't had the chance to reply to people individually. Glad that it has been discovered that there are no GPF's in Australia as I was unsure on that.

I recently took the car to my local BMW specialist who services my other cars. I didn't mention anything about oil as I was keen to see what he would use. He ended up putting in Ravenol HLS 5w30 which is an LL04 spec mid saps oil.

Do you think this will be fine provided I change it every 10,000km/1 year and only use 95 or 98 octane fuel (50ppm sulphur)?

More than a "spec" it has BMW Longlife-04 approval.

 

[Haakon]

Thanks to everyone for all of the replies here, some very valuable info. Sorry I haven't had the chance to reply to people individually. Glad that it has been discovered that there are no GPF's in Australia as I was unsure on that.

I recently took the car to my local BMW specialist who services my other cars. I didn't mention anything about oil as I was keen to see what he would use. He ended up putting in Ravenol HLS 5w30 which is an LL04 spec mid saps oil.

Do you think this will be fine provided I change it every 10,000km/1 year and only use 95 or 98 octane fuel (50ppm sulphur)?

Yep, that’s all fine.

I’ll add though to not bother with 98 - legally in Australia there are regulations for fuel quality only for 91 and 95, so legally 98 only needs to meet the spec of 95 to be sold.

Some government testing a few years showed it tended on average to be 96-97 mostly! Also, they put a lot of extra additives in that don’t always play well in some engines…

But mostly you just don’t get any advantage - all petrol grades are the same energy content so if you’re engine and it’s tune are tuned for 95 extra knock resistance does diddly squat. It’s jsut a high profit margin product the oil companies throw a lot of advertising budget at.

 

[edyvw]

Tend to be high HTHS numbers. I was particularly interested in this as my Alfa Romeo engine has a cam over flat bucket tappets. It’s less of an issue on most modern engines that have roller rockers though.

Low SAPS oils can have high HTHS numbers.

 

[930.engineering]

He ended up putting in Ravenol HLS 5w30 which is an LL04 spec mid saps oil.

Interestingly HLS comes with BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 & 52 however not with VW 504 00 but with VW 505 00 & 505 01 instead.

Approvals: API SN, BMW Longlife-04, GM dexos2™ (Lizenz-Nr. D235AGDL081), MB-Freigabe 229.31, MB-Freigabe 229.51, MB-Freigabe 229.52, Opel OV 040 1547 - D30, VW 505 00, VW 505 01

https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/motorenoel/pkw-motorenoel/ravenol-hls-sae-5w-30

Low SAPS oils can have high HTHS numbers.

Exactly. BMW LL-04 ranges from 3.5 to 3.9 HTHS. For example:

https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/m...avenol-rup-racing-ultra-performance-sae-5w-40
.

 

[TasBMW]

Yep, that’s all fine.

I’ll add though to not bother with 98 - legally in Australia there are regulations for fuel quality only for 91 and 95, so legally 98 only needs to meet the spec of 95 to be sold.

Some government testing a few years showed it tended on average to be 96-97 mostly! Also, they put a lot of extra additives in that don’t always play well in some engines…

But mostly you just don’t get any advantage - all petrol grades are the same energy content so if you’re engine and it’s tune are tuned for 95 extra knock resistance does diddly squat. It’s jsut a high profit margin product the oil companies throw a lot of advertising budget at.

Yeah, for this one 95 is probably the way to go. I still like to use 98 for my BMW M6 (S85 V10 which revs to just shy of 9k RPM), but even that's supposed to be fine on 95 according to the owners manual.

Hopefully with the revised standards being introduced in late 2025 they will legislate the requirements surrounding 98 octane a bit better.

 

[TasBMW]

My mechanic gets his oil through Imparts, as they are the only Australian importers of Ravenol. A lot of local European specialists are now using this oil. I have to wonder if they are aware that the LL04 oils are not supposed to be used in petrol models in our market, or if Imparts has tricked them into thinking it is a superior 'European standard' oil which is why they're using it and recommending it to customers, blissfully unaware that it is anything but superior if used with Australian grade fuel.

 

[Haakon]

Low SAPS oils can have high HTHS numbers.

Which is why I said "tend to". Either way, for those of use not driving stinky diesels with DPFs to protect a mid or even full saps is just fine

 

[Haakon]

Yeah, for this one 95 is probably the way to go. I still like to use 98 for my BMW M6 (S85 V10 which revs to just shy of 9k RPM), but even that's supposed to be fine on 95 according to the owners manual.

Hopefully with the revised standards being introduced in late 2025 they will legislate the requirements surrounding 98 octane a bit better.

No, the governments job with fuel standards is setting the sulphur content and performance requirements etc of the minimum fuels required.

98 is simply an optional product and OEM don’t require their cars to use it. It’s all just bulk profits for the oil companies, and might get used by a few enthusiasts with modified engines and custom tunes.

We might lose 91 though I heard. Not many countries still use such low octane petrol. All the 91 fuel cars now won’t be helped only being able to get 95, but it won’t hurt them

 

[Retirednow]

BP Ultimate 98 most consistent. Local Audi/VW tuner shop can’t get the consistency of the others to match some tunes. I use Costco 98 (Mobil) because it’s cheap, but daughter changed to BP for her recently acquired Audi S3.

 

[Haakon]

BP Ultimate 98 most consistent. Local Audi/VW tuner shop can’t get the consistency of the others to match some tunes. I use Costco 98 (Mobil) because it’s cheap, but daughter changed to BP for her recently acquired Audi S3.

Yeah it’s very inconsistent. Such are the perils of an unregulated product…

If you don’t have a tune and your European car is stock, save the money and jsut use 95.

 

[yowps3]

95 isn't readily available. Noticed most places offer e10, 91 and jump straight to 98

 

[Retirednow]

Yeah it’s very inconsistent. Such are the perils of an unregulated product…

If you don’t have a tune and your European car is stock, save the money and jsut use 95.

91 or 98 and that’s it. I use Costco (Mobil) 98, Tash BP Ultimate 98 as instructed by her shop/tuner.