BMW Longlife Specs... (LL01, LL04, LL19FE; N52 and B48)

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Sep 29, 2018
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Hi Everyone,

Any multiple BMW engine owners here? Would love to hear some experience with all the Longlife oil specs.

Well, I have both an N52 and B48 (non-TU, non-GPF), according to BMW ISTA (factory service software), the B48 is compatible with every Longlife spec from LL-01 to LL-19FE, whereas the N52 is LL-01 (and FE), LL-04, LL-12FE, and LL-19FE. Viscoity-wise, these specs cover everything from 0w20 to 5w40.

Before owning the B48, I never put too much thought into oil choice, since the N52 is port-injected and naturally aspirated. I used whatever was cheapest among Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, and Shell Helix Ultra, right now I have a few jugs of Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 SP from a sale.

After getting the B48, I bought 8L of Shell Helix Ultra 5w30 SP LL01, which I know is perfectly safe to run in the B48. Since I still had some miles left before the oil change, I went researching the various BMW oil specs out of curiosity.

From what I have learned so far, LL01 and LL04 share the same HTHS requirement of at least 3.5, while LL04 has lower SAPS and lower TBN (both for environmental reasons, emission equipment and low sulfur fuel right?).

LL01 was apparently originally developed for and tested by BMW using the N52, it was updated somewhere along the way to include N20 and caused Mobil 1 and Castrol to lose the certification for a couple of years. According to Lubrizol, LL04 was developed for N20 and included B48 testing in 2019, and is usually a better base stock compared to LL01. LL19FE seems like an LL04 replacement, but only offered in 0w30.

I generally don't care too much about base stock, and according to this post, LL01 would have better protection at the cost of fuel economy (emission isn't relevant for me since I don't have GPF, local fuel is equivalent to Euro 6 in sulfur content): https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...gives-better-protection-than-ll04-oil.329930/


So far, I feel LL01 would still be the best choice for N52. Can anyone share some experience with the B series engines? Is there any reason to run LL04/LL19FE?
 
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Run Shell Helix ECT 0W30 in both engines if fuel is low on sulphur. WHere in Asia?
That's the SN LL04 right? It's not readily available where I am. Also shouldn't Turbo GDI engines use SP instead?

There is a Helix Ultra 0w30 SP LL19FE available, but it is considerably more expensive and in the same price range as oil sold by BMW.

In fact, the most locally readily available, reasonably priced LL04 seems to be Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, but Shell Helix 5w is just dirt cheap for some reason. Helix 5w LL01 ~$18/4L, Mobil FS 0w40 LL01 ~$35/5QT, Mobil ESP 5w30 LL04 ~$42/5QT.
 
That's the SN LL04 right? It's not readily available where I am. Also shouldn't Turbo GDI engines use SP instead?

There is a Helix Ultra 0w30 SP LL19FE available, but it is considerably more expensive and in the same price range as oil sold by BMW.

In fact, the most locally readily available, reasonably priced LL04 seems to be Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, but Shell Helix 5w is just dirt cheap for some reason. Helix 5w LL01 ~$18/4L, Mobil FS 0w40 LL01 ~$35/5QT, Mobil ESP 5w30 LL04 ~$42/5QT.
Get Mobil1 ESP 5W30. Again, where in Asia?
SP doesn’t have anything to do with turbo. You are probably thinking about LSPI. Most important thing is to have approvals like MB229.52, LL04. Those approvals are far more stringent than API.
Also, Euro engines don’t suffer from LSPI. Some tuned ones do. But, regular, don’t.
 
Get Mobil1 ESP 5W30. Again, where in Asia?
SP doesn’t have anything to do with turbo. You are probably thinking about LSPI. Most important thing is to have approvals like MB229.52, LL04. Those approvals are far more stringent than API.
Also, Euro engines don’t suffer from LSPI. Some tuned ones do. But, regular, don’t.
Sub-tropical China. Fuel standards are pretty much a complete copy of Euro 6.

Would you mind elaborating on the preference for LL-04?

From what I can find on LL-04, the biggest difference from LL-01 is low SAPS, which doesn't seem to matter for my application. Is it better than LL-01 in some other way?


Yes, I meant LSPI, there are some reported cases on stock B48 (piston damage), but I am not particularly concerned. I agree approvals are more strict than API.
 
I am just really curious if there is a specific reason for this choice (other than fuel economy), since LL-04 is fairly more expensive.
There are no fuel economy gains. LL01 and and LL04 are not energy conserving oils.
LL04 produces less ash, which is what clogs DPF/GPF. But also, ash builds up on intake valves in DI engines.
 
Interesting - I essentially have the same two BMW engines. N52 and a B46.
I've used either Castrol Edge 0W-40 (even before it had LL01 approval) or Quaker State Euro 5W-40 in the N52.
For the B46, after starting this thread decided on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. The B46 is still under wtty so I wanted to stay as close to the recommended oil.

 
There are no fuel economy gains. LL01 and and LL04 are not energy conserving oils.
LL04 produces less ash, which is what clogs DPF/GPF. But also, ash builds up on intake valves in DI engines.
The Lubrizol chart states a fuel economy requirement for LL-04, which LL-01 does not have. But I guess it makes sense for them not to have an actual difference.

So basically, you would recommend running LL-04 for the B48, just for less valve build-up right? That's a good enough reason for me, since it would at least make a difference, unlike the unneeded GPF compatibility.

For LL-04, I was able to find Shell Helix Ultra C3 5w30, which is the cheapest name brand, and I am thinking of running it from now on. Alternatives are the Fuchs GT1 C3 5w30, which is moderately priced, and the previously mentioned, more expensive Mobil 1 ESP.

That being said, shouldn't I just keep using the LL-01 Shell 5w40 for N52? Since all the benefits mentioned so far don't apply for N52, and LL-01 is a lot cheaper?
 
The Lubrizol chart states a fuel economy requirement for LL-04, which LL-01 does not have. But I guess it makes sense for them not to have an actual difference.

So basically, you would recommend running LL-04 for the B48, just for less valve build-up right? That's a good enough reason for me, since it would at least make a difference, unlike the unneeded GPF compatibility.

For LL-04, I was able to find Shell Helix Ultra C3 5w30, which is the cheapest name brand, and I am thinking of running it from now on. Alternatives are the Fuchs GT1 C3 5w30, which is moderately priced, and the previously mentioned, more expensive Mobil 1 ESP.

That being said, shouldn't I just keep using the LL-01 Shell 5w40 for N52? Since all the benefits mentioned so far don't apply for N52, and LL-01 is a lot cheaper?
BMW generally has a really good PCV. That is most important in mitigating intake valve deposits (IVD). On BMW only N54 had an issue with that.
Shell C3 5W30 is what is here, Pennzoil Euro L 5W30. It is a good oil. As for N52, you can run either that C3 Shell or 5W40. 5W40 SHell is really, really good oil if you are talking Helix PurePlus technology.
 
BMW generally has a really good PCV. That is most important in mitigating intake valve deposits (IVD). On BMW only N54 had an issue with that.
Shell C3 5W30 is what is here, Pennzoil Euro L 5W30. It is a good oil. As for N52, you can run either that C3 Shell or 5W40. 5W40 SHell is really, really good oil if you are talking Helix PurePlus technology.
Just to clarify, while B48 doesn't suffer from significant IVD, it is still worth running the more expensive mid-SAPS LL-04, to keep IVD to a minimum right?
 
Nah, just run 5W40.
You mean to use LL-01 rather than LL-04 right?

That's what I originally thought, LL-04 wouldn't offer practical benefits for my application.

For the B48, I am probably going to use the Shell Helix Ultra SP LL-01 5W30, which I already got for the same price as the same oil in 5W40 (that I have been running in N52), also considering the Mini has a lot less mileage than the N52 E90.
 
You mean to use LL-01 rather than LL-04 right?

That's what I originally thought, LL-04 wouldn't offer practical benefits for my application.

For the B48, I am probably going to use the Shell Helix Ultra SP LL-01 5W30, which I already got for the same price as the same oil in 5W40 (that I have been running in N52), also considering the Mini has a lot less mileage than the N52 E90.
That will be fine. No need to pay more for LL04.
 
Interesting - I essentially have the same two BMW engines. N52 and a B46.
I've used either Castrol Edge 0W-40 (even before it had LL01 approval) or Quaker State Euro 5W-40 in the N52.
For the B46, after starting this thread decided on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. The B46 is still under wtty so I wanted to stay as close to the recommended oil.

For both of our B series engines, BMW recommends 17FE+ and approves every Longlife spec from LL-01 to LL-19FE. This is according to BMW ISTA, their dealer service software/manual. B46 does not have GPF.

Owner's manuals had a lot of model year changes and are market/country-specific (for non-technical reasons, i.e. dealer stock) which is very confusing.

You wouldn't have a warranty issue if you ran any of the LL specs. My Mini's most recent service history from the previous owner at a dealer had the oil part number recorded, which was BMW LL-01 5W30, a repackaged Shell Helix Ultra 5w30.



Another interesting point is, for newer S series engines, BMW only allows LL01 (and FE), LL04, LL12FE, and LL19FE, which is the same as our older N52. So at least for best protection, I would pick from these five specs.
 
For the B46, after starting this thread decided on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30. The B46 is still under wtty so I wanted to stay as close to the recommended oil.
Please do not run LL04 oil if you are under warranty. LL04 is not allowed by TIS for any BMW in North America regardless of if it’s technically a good choice. LL01 and LL01FE are the only “traditional” specs approved for B46 and B58. Just use M1 FS 0W-40 or another LL01 oil. There is no reason to complicate things and it’s probably a better oil anyway.
 
Another interesting point is, for newer S series engines, BMW only allows LL01 (and FE), LL04, LL12FE, and LL19FE, which is the same as our older N52.
BMW does not allow LL04 in any engine in North America. You can check TIS and verify. It doesn’t matter if the new specs are mid SAPS also. BMW never corrected since LL04 predated ULSG in the US. It will not be a functional issue, but I am just saying if you are concerned about warranty and need to supply receipts or evidence of oil purchased.
 
BMW does not allow LL04 in any engine in North America. You can check TIS and verify. It doesn’t matter if the new specs are mid SAPS also. BMW never corrected since LL04 predated ULSG in the US. It will not be a functional issue, but I am just saying if you are concerned about warranty and need to supply receipts or evidence of oil purchased.
My bad, missed the fine print on the bottom still saying LL04 is only permitted for EU.

GJM120: you might want to run LL01 while still in warranty just to make things simpler.

Interestingly enough, BMW Group actually offers LL04 for sale on their site in China.
 
Please do not run LL04 oil if you are under warranty. LL04 is not allowed by TIS for any BMW in North America regardless of if it’s technically a good choice. LL01 and LL01FE are the only “traditional” specs approved for B46 and B58. Just use M1 FS 0W-40 or another LL01 oil. There is no reason to complicate things and it’s probably a better oil anyway.
I decided on the Mobil 1 ESP LL04 only because the oils recommended by BMW were not full saps. I thought hat I was closer to what was recommended by not going full SAPs. Probably the wrong choice for wtty as you pointed out but good for the engine. I have found oil spec sheets for BMW that show LL04 for the B46, but those are likely outside on NA.
 
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