Valvoline 0w30 Euro Oil

[edyvw]

I've been lurking and had a side question related to b58 oil and the cooling system - I've got the supra variant with a flex fuel tune that has the cooling set more aggressively. I'm running a 5w30 LL04 oil. Basically instead of staying above 200 f , oil is heating up to about 205 degrees when warming up and then it lowers and is keeping the oil temps around 178 - 182 degrees (maybe going a bit higher at times). Is a safe temperature range for the oil to be?

What kind of fuel you are using?
As for oil temperature, I mean, it is A OK. Generally, above 212 is preferred. I think tune is designed to buy you more time on track.

 

[savagepassenger]

What kind of fuel you are using?
As for oil temperature, I mean, it is A OK. Generally, above 212 is preferred. I think tune is designed to buy you more time on track.

I'm using 93 octane, also with an ethanol blend a lot of the time anywhere up to e50. It's primarily a street car, so that's partly why I was starting to wonder if it's ok for the oil temp to be where it is in terms of lubrication etc.

 

[scrllock]

I'm using 93 octane, also with an ethanol blend a lot of the time anywhere up to e50. It's primarily a street car, so that's partly why I was starting to wonder if it's ok for the oil temp to be where it is in terms of lubrication etc.

180F is ok, about the minimum you want before throwing high load at it.

I would go to 5w40 on ethanol blends. Even E30 is enough to justify it. LL04 shouldn't be a concern once tuned and running alternative fuel.

 

[edyvw]

180F is ok, about the minimum you want before throwing high load at it.

I would go to 5w40 on ethanol blends. Even E30 is enough to justify it. LL04 shouldn't be a concern once tuned and running alternative fuel.

^This. Nothing thinner than W40, no esters.

 

[edyvw]

I'm using 93 octane, also with an ethanol blend a lot of the time anywhere up to e50. It's primarily a street car, so that's partly why I was starting to wonder if it's ok for the oil temp to be where it is in terms of lubrication etc.

Yeah, their tune is designed for track. I mean it is a ok. But look comment above. I would not go anything below W40, something. No esters!

 

[MK5Rabbit]

Not sure why, I would lose sleep.
But, ESP 5W30 goes for $37 for 5qt at local Auto Zone and AAP.
But if WM is place where you shop, go Mobil1 0W40.

You would interchange 5w30 esp with FS 0w40? Is FS low saps now? I have been using vw 507 00 oil in my 2.0 TSI for last 3 oil changes because I wanted to use a low saps oil. The approval on the radiator support says use vw 502 00. I’m curious is some changed with mobile 1 FS 0w40 it’s so cheap and easily accessible at Walmarts.

 

[edyvw]

You would interchange 5w30 esp with FS 0w40? Is FS low saps now? I have been using vw 507 00 oil in my 2.0 TSI for last 3 oil changes because I wanted to use a low saps oil. The approval on the radiator support says use vw 502 00. I’m curious is some changed with mobile 1 FS 0w40 it’s so cheap and easily accessible at Walmarts.

The answer is for BMW not VW.
BMW's don't have CBU issues like TSI engines, or they have far less (except old N54).
I used VW504.00/507.00 in my Tiguan, now I have VW502.00. I mean, it is fine to use either. Would VW504.00 delay CBU a bit? perhaps.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

The answer is for BMW not VW.
BMW's don't have CBU issues like TSI engines, or they have far less (except old N54).
I used VW504.00/507.00 in my Tiguan, now I have VW502.00. I mean, it is fine to use either. Would VW504.00 delay CBU a bit? perhaps.

I see, you aren’t captured by the “low saps has to be used in TSI’s!” Group. Interesting.

I bet your are using FS 0w40 in your Tiguan.

 

[edyvw]

I see, you aren’t captured by the “low saps has to be used in TSI’s!” Group. Interesting.

I bet your are using FS 0w40 in your Tiguan.

I would use ESP 0/5W30 is I did not have bunch of Motul on the shelf.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

I would use ESP 0/5W30 is I did not have bunch of Motul on the shelf.

Oh yeah, X cess 5w40 502. I remember you saying something about that awhile back.

 

[scrllock]

You would interchange 5w30 esp with FS 0w40? Is FS low saps now? I have been using vw 507 00 oil in my 2.0 TSI for last 3 oil changes because I wanted to use a low saps oil. The approval on the radiator support says use vw 502 00. I’m curious is some changed with mobile 1 FS 0w40 it’s so cheap and easily accessible at Walmarts.

IMO 504 is mostly a spec for fuel economy and cat life. Intake valve buildup is going to happen, especially on older TSI engines with the original PCV system and no port injection.
I have a 2019 which came with a 504 sticker, but I'd rather run a high HTHS 502 with more ZDDP than compromise wear with the limits on viscosity and ZDDP that come with 504/511 oils. I don't think anything but port injection will fully prevent needing regular carbon cleans, at least pre-Mk8.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

IMO 504 is mostly a spec for fuel economy and cat life. Intake valve buildup is going to happen, especially on older TSI engines with the original PCV system and no port injection.
I have a 2019 which came with a 504 sticker, but I'd rather run a high HTHS 502 with more ZDDP than compromise wear with the limits on viscosity and ZDDP that come with 504/511 oils. I don't think anything but port injection will fully prevent needing regular carbon cleans, at least pre-Mk8.

Interesting. Your stance is that 504 won’t lower carbon enough to justify not using 502 for more protection.

 

[edyvw]

IMO 504 is mostly a spec for fuel economy and cat life. Intake valve buildup is going to happen, especially on older TSI engines with the original PCV system and no port injection.
I have a 2019 which came with a 504 sticker, but I'd rather run a high HTHS 502 with more ZDDP than compromise wear with the limits on viscosity and ZDDP that come with 504/511 oils. I don't think anything but port injection will fully prevent needing regular carbon cleans, at least pre-Mk8.

Absolutely not correct!
VW504.00/507.00 are not fuel efficiency oils. Minimum HTHS is 3.5cP same as VW502.00, LL01, MB229.5X.
VW504.00/507.00 could have high ZDDP, sometimes higher than VW502.00. It has lower SAPS producing additives, and with that, it is more sophisticated oil bcs. requirements are more sophisticated.
As for CBU, Lubrizol test showed that VW502.00 leave up to 167% more CBU on intake valves than tested VW504.00/507.00.
This all has been discussed long time ago here.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

Absolutely not correct!
VW504.00/507.00 are not fuel efficiency oils. Minimum HTHS is 3.5cP same as VW502.00, LL01, MB229.5X.
VW504.00/507.00 could have high ZDDP, sometimes higher than VW502.00. It has lower SAPS producing additives, and with that, it is more sophisticated oil bcs. requirements are more sophisticated.
As for CBU, Lubrizol test showed that VW502.00 leave up to 167% more CBU on intake valves than tested VW504.00/507.00.
This all has been discussed long time ago here.

Agreed, which is why I would move from vw504 to vw511 if I wanted more protection.

 

[scrllock]

Absolutely not correct!
VW504.00/507.00 are not fuel efficiency oils. Minimum HTHS is 3.5cP same as VW502.00, LL01, MB229.5X.
VW504.00/507.00 could have high ZDDP, sometimes higher than VW502.00. It has lower SAPS producing additives, and with that, it is more sophisticated oil bcs. requirements are more sophisticated.
As for CBU, Lubrizol test showed that VW502.00 leave up to 167% more CBU on intake valves than tested VW504.00/507.00.
This all has been discussed long time ago here.

504 is limited to 30 grade oils. Very hard to find any higher than 3.5, maybe 3.6cP. 502 does not have this restriction. As a result you can find oils with even higher HTHS like X-cess 5w40 which you recommend often. Maybe it's not explicitly part of the spec but it is an implicit requirement.

You are conflating a "more efficient" oil with something like an ILSAC oil, obviously they are all at least 3.5cP, but merely by not allowing 40 grade, it is a more efficient spec.


I have never seen a 504 oil with more than 900 ppm. 502 still come in the ~1100 range.

Agreed, which is why I would move from vw504 to vw511 if I wanted more protection.

What is the main difference in 511? No restriction on using 40 grades. Fuel economy requirement is a bit different on a Bi-turbo V8 RS6 than a 4cyl Golf.

 

[edyvw]

504 is limited to 30 grade oils. Very hard to find any higher than 3.5, maybe 3.6cP. 502 does not have this restriction. As a result you can find oils with even higher HTHS like X-cess 5w40 which you recommend often. Maybe it's not explicitly part of the spec but it is an implicit requirement.

You are conflating a "more efficient" oil with something like an ILSAC oil, obviously they are all at least 3.5cP, but merely by not allowing 40 grade, it is a more efficient spec.


I have never seen a 504 oil with more than 900 ppm. 502 still come in the ~1100 range.


What is the main difference in 511? No restriction on using 40 grades. Fuel economy requirement is a bit different on a Bi-turbo V8 RS6 than a 4cyl Golf.

All Euro specs are based on minimum HTHS; VW504.00 is just limited to those grades. HTHS of some VW504.00 is higher than 3.6, some entering 3.7cP territory (Shell Helix C3 GTL oils are in this range). There is nothing there that is fuel efficient. Just because they are limited to 30 grade does not mean it is fuel efficiency oils. How do you measure such gain? SHell Helix C3 (PPE 5W30 Euro L) has HTHS of 3.68cP and Castrol Edge 5W40 VW502.00 has HTHS of 3.64cP, does that mean VW502.00 is more fuel efficient bcs. it has HTHS lower by 0.04cP?
Very few VW502.00 oils are in 1100 range, more so between 850-1000 range, similar to VW504.00 oils.

 

[scrllock]

All Euro specs are based on minimum HTHS; VW504.00 is just limited to those grades. HTHS of some VW504.00 is higher than 3.6, some entering 3.7cP territory (Shell Helix C3 GTL oils are in this range). There is nothing there that is fuel efficient. Just because they are limited to 30 grade does not mean it is fuel efficiency oils. How do you measure such gain? SHell Helix C3 (PPE 5W30 Euro L) has HTHS of 3.68cP and Castrol Edge 5W40 VW502.00 has HTHS of 3.64cP, does that mean VW502.00 is more fuel efficient bcs. it has HTHS lower by 0.04cP?
Very few VW502.00 oils are in 1100 range, more so between 850-1000 range, similar to VW504.00 oils.

By limiting 504 to 30 grade oils, there is an implicit cap on HTHS. Also because of API, aren't 30 grades limited on Phos%?
Again you can buy 502 approved oils with more ZDDP and higher HTHS than exist in any oil with 504 approval.

I'm not saying 502 is less efficient, just that it can be.

The only 504 shell product we have is Euro LX 0w30, Euro L 5w30 doesn't have any VW approvals.

 

[edyvw]

By limiting 504 to 30 grade oils, there is an implicit cap on HTHS. Also because of API, aren't 30 grades limited on Phos%?
Again you can buy 502 approved oils with more ZDDP and higher HTHS than exist in any oil with 504 approval.

I'm not saying 502 is less efficient, just that it can be.

What is that cap on HTHS then? There is no such thing as implicit. What does that mean? You don't set up specifications for manufacturers with such a wide range and hope the oil they deliver will be more fuel efficient. It does prioritize other things like cold starts and cold performance, SAPS and CBU prevention etc.
There is a limit on phosphorous. Hence, some VW504.00 do not have API SP approval (Mobil1 ESP 0W30). Who cares about API? Also, many new versions of XW30 Euro oils are still API SL bcs. phosphorous content.

Of course, you can buy VW502.00 with more ZDDP (by the way, VW502.00 is nothing special and has higher wear limits than VW504.00), but you have to really look for it. Also, ZDDP is not the end to all. It is just one of the variables. Both VW502.00 and VW504.00 are catalyst-friendly oils. Any oil for street use after 1991 is CAT friendly.

 

[scrllock]

What is that cap on HTHS then? There is no such thing as implicit. What does that mean? You don't set up specifications for manufacturers with such a wide range and hope the oil they deliver will be more fuel efficient. It does prioritize other things like cold starts and cold performance, SAPS and CBU prevention etc.
There is a limit on phosphorous. Hence, some VW504.00 do not have API SP approval (Mobil1 ESP 0W30). Who cares about API? Also, many new versions of XW30 Euro oils are still API SL bcs. phosphorous content.

Of course, you can buy VW502.00 with more ZDDP (by the way, VW502.00 is nothing special and has higher wear limits than VW504.00), but you have to really look for it. Also, ZDDP is not the end to all. It is just one of the variables. Both VW502.00 and VW504.00 are catalyst-friendly oils. Any oil for street use after 1991 is CAT friendly.

Implicit means that one requirement implies another. It's not explicitly stated. I think that is a common enough word to understand.

I also don't care about API, but regardless ESP 0w30 is still not a high ZDDP oil compared to 502 M1 40 grades. When a 30 grade oil is preferred (for whatever reason that might be), I would still pick the SL oil if cat life isn't a concern however. I did say a high HTHS 502, not Castrol 5w40, which I think we agree is not the ideal choice.

Obviously there are differences in just how cat-friendly oils are. Clearly improvements have been made on that front since 1991.
Let me ask you this: what are the differences between my motor and one built a year or two prior? One has a sticker saying 502, one has a sticker saying 504. But they are identical mechanically. Exact same bearings. Exact same catalytic converter. Only difference is stricter CAFE standards.

 

[edyvw]

Implicit means that one requirement implies another. It's not explicitly stated. I think that is a common enough word to understand.

I also don't care about API, but regardless ESP 0w30 is still not a high ZDDP oil compared to 502 M1 40 grades. When a 30 grade oil is preferred (for whatever reason that might be), I would still pick the SL oil if cat life isn't a concern however. I did say a high HTHS 502, not Castrol 5w40, which I think we agree is not the ideal choice.

Obviously there are differences in just how cat-friendly oils are. Clearly improvements have been made on that front since 1991.
Let me ask you this: what are the differences between my motor and one built a year or two prior? One has a sticker saying 502, one has a sticker saying 504. But they are identical mechanically. Exact same bearings. Exact same catalytic converter. Only difference is stricter CAFE standards.

HTHS of M1 0W40 is around 3.6.
I really have no idea where this discussion is going.