Not to beat a dead horse here but if it's about oil with specs I really liked QS Euro for anything and everything. Everything I have has seemed to like it. Having said that and full disclosure, I'm running Red Line 5w30 which doesn't have any of the specs and the B58 motor in my Grenadier has never ran smoother. From idle on up it's simply quieter and smoother. I fully acknowledge that doesn't mean it's greater wear protection but looking at the VOAs of it it's very impressive. It's not an EURO oil but for short OCI it sure feels superior. However, again, for basically anything and everything (especially my yamaha 225SHO outboard) the QS Euro seems to keep everything happy and be of very good off-the-shelf quality.
What makes Euro oils different?
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edyvw
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Most obvious difference is base stock:
AFE: 25-50% GTL, rest probably group III.
ESP:
50-75% GTL
10-25% PAO
There are other things like polymers etc. that are probably of higher quality in ESP.
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The oxidation level of the Virgin 0w30 is indicative of some ester content too, no? The 5w30 has about 20% lower Virgin oxidation per the voas posted on this forum. Although a GTL/PAO blend is certainly a high quality base.
Alkalyted naphthalenes could be used as an ester substitute.
https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/products/synthetic-base-stocks/alkylated-naphthalene
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Yes, ESP 0W30 has ester. I was referring to 0W20.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
Amsoil buys it's base stock from EOM I believe, so it's a good chance they are using AN in place of PAO?
The ONLY Amsoil Euro that meets all the specs that @Kalle.J mentioned is the 0w-30, the only one that meets SP specs. Lake Speed Jr. says AW & detergent additives (Calcium for one) compete for space, & SP lowered the calcium level to fight LSPI. This results in more wear protection without raising ZDDP levels. He also says you don't really need high TBN anymore because U.S. fuels have no sulfur, which is the main acid producer. In analysis, I've noticed the Euro has a minimum amount of Molybdenum compared to it's signature series line.
AN falls into Gr 5 and would be used in place of an Ester (Gr5). From XOM blending guides not a lot is required for the desired effect. Think 10% or less.
True but some have huge sumps, that dilute contamination and reserve additives so it can do those crazy intervals. My 3.2 Porsche has a 9 qt sump and 15k mile interval (I do 5k, though).
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Porsche, BMW etc. are outliers.
Approvals are there for a reason. Next is fuel, it is far cleaner in EU. Also, the minimum is 91(RON). The roads are cleaner etc. Not all EU or European countries have those intervals. Countries with bit more sulphur or dirtier roads etc. have OCI usually between 7,500mls to 10,000mls.
The best way to notice that is to go to Croatia and rent a car. Drive to Germany. Once you fuel up in Austria, oh boy, do you feel the difference.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
No, as @BMWTurboDzl notes, AN's would be used in place of Esters (POE, Adipate...etc), which are used to balance the seal shrink tendency of PAO in the base oil blend, while improving solvency. You could get a bit of insight into this by looking at VOA oxidation values, if they are really low, they may be using AN's, while if they are elevated, they are using esters (of course you can also use both like HPL does).
SN+/SP introduced the LSPI requirements, but there are Euro OE LSPI tests now (see: Mercedes). I'd be far more concerned about the Euro OE approvals than SP, which the requirements of are very easy to meet with even cheap oils.
This was introduced with API SN+ (LSPI mitigation) and one of the drivers of LSPI is the reduction of ZDDP, which is an LSPI mitigator. Detergent content has been reduced for ages in your bog standard API-targeted PCMO, the problem was that calcium, which was the most common detergent, due to cost, instigates LSPI in these lower ZDDP lubricants, so the solution was to swap out Calcium for Magnesium, which you can see in VOA's.
Eh, that's not really an accurate depiction of the situation, since ZDDP is capped due to the implementation of the phosphorous limit, so those levels cannot be raised. What was discovered was that when detergent levels were reduced, AW performance increased with the same amount of ZDDP. Now, how much it increased, relative to having more ZDDP isn't discussed however. We also saw the detergent changeover in the full-SAPS Euro oils like M1 FS 0W-40 to a more magnesium-heavy package, but of course it, being a 40-grade, isn't subject to the phosphorous restriction.
We haven't had sky high TBN levels in PCMO's for ages now, this isn't new with SN+/SP. Take a look at some old VOA's to see what I mean. Where you tend to see higher TBN's is HDEO's, for example, D1 0W-40 has a TBN of 11.
Now, that said, there are various things that deplete TBN. The HPL full-SAPS Euro 0W-40 has a virgin TBN of 12.8 and it was down to 4.2 in my SRT Jeep after 9,795km (6,086 miles) and that's with no meaningful fuel dilution in a 7 quart sump.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
SP in Euro vehicles is irrelevant. Overkill explained above.
I would go Amsoil 5W30 AEL if going with Amsoil, and I have no clue what API specification it claims.
Is "some" an "outlier"?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
All Porsche and BMW have big sumps compared to similarly sized appliance vehicles. Heck, my BMW has a sump almost the size of my Toyota V8, just 0.4qt smaller.