European oil specifications are ridiculous IMO. While there are a lot of high-performance engines that come out of Europe, I find it interesting how less complicated oil specifications are in the Asian and US markets. It's almost indicative of how Europe approaches all their issues, which is with heavy handed regulation. Probably one reason why the EU economy is 1/10th of ours.
What makes Euro oils different?
- Thread starter FlyingTexan
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Lol, not really, and this has been discussed a lot.
1. All engineering solutions are consequence of tradition/culture.
2. Approvals were created when European manufacturing was going through big downsizing trend. The US is just 25yrs behind.
3. API specifications were not sufficient.
4. Oils need to sustain serious speeds. American and Asian manufacturers also recommended forever ACEA A3 and C3 oils in Europe while recommending 0W20 here. Toyota recommended C3 in 2GR-FE engines in Europe. Same thing with Honda. All their turbo diesel engines were C3.
5. Exploitation is different. Mentioned already.
6. Gas is expensive. Small turbo engines. Yes, my Sequoia wants 0W20. But I am not paying $8 a gallon ( good price). In Europe I own Prado diesel. C3 required.
Yeah I agree with most of what you said....25 years behind? I guess some of the API/ILSAC specs are pretty far behind.
I just find it hard to believe they can't simplify it a bit.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
The engine downsizing trend is 25yrs behind. People here still talk about “1st generation GDI engines” and that happened in Europe in 1998.
In 1991 there you had mainstream 2.0T engines with 200+ hp. Then you have slew of turbo diesel engines with 1.8-2.0 ltr displacement hitting markets in 90’s, and they all had to do 120mph or more. 90’s were speeding dream in all Europe, not just Germany like today.
I once got pulled over in Italy between Venice and Milan in Alfa Romeo 155 2.0 Twin Spark, by carabineri. They can pull you over there for no reason, and if you have foreign plates, for sure. So, after they checked everything, the guy tells me “drive faster, it is Cuore Sportivo.” I was doing 100-110mph.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
As @edyvw noted, they were just much further ahead. We see that now with 3 generations of dexos for example, with GM pushing for oil performance beyond the API minimums. We look at Toyota's ring coking problems, idiotic mileage counter (no IOLM), and this is mostly on dealer serviced vehicles where the "coveted" TGMO is used exclusively and I think we'll eventually see the same from the Japanese marques as the API continues to be behind the advancement curve, just pushing up the bottom and not doing so fast enough to satisfy the ever-increasing demands placed on oils by modern engines.
Great post!! Should be a sticky
nah, i am happy with my group 3 oils
. Pao oils are now ridiculous expensive over hereI just saw there is a Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 P too. Not sure if that is new or not.
https://www.mobil.co.uk/en-gb/engine-oil/mobil-1/car/mobil-1-esp-formula-p-5w-30
https://www.mobil.co.uk/en-gb/engine-oil/mobil-1/car/mobil-1-esp-formula-p-5w-30
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It's pretty new. A little bit expensiver than the SP version.
typical petrolhead culture differences between these 2 continents: USA and EUROPE
i know what you mean, proud former owner of Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 Twin Spark,next model..yeah ,that was fun
days!broke my hear when sold it for the bimmer..not that i am dissapointed ,but that cuore sportivo, ****,these Italians knew how to make sports cars for daily drivers.
hope alfa makes such cars again, julia is a so beautiful lady!
an asian engine love affair for my finish friend!less complicated oils for less complicated engines
For those of you who still believe European oils are all Full Saps High HTHS that era is over, it has been for a few years now, 99% of manufacturers now spec Low / Mid Saps and HTHS, we got DPFs much earlier than in the US, and now GPFs too.
I can see the point of DPFs on Diesel Cars as many European cities do have NOx pollution problems but GPFs seem too much to me.
Combine that with wet belts and the engine dumping fuel in to regen the particle filter and diluting the oil and long intervals and i think that's just a recipe for disaster, as we are seeing across ALL brands now, Peugeot, Citroen, Ford, VW...
I can see the point of DPFs on Diesel Cars as many European cities do have NOx pollution problems but GPFs seem too much to me.
Combine that with wet belts and the engine dumping fuel in to regen the particle filter and diluting the oil and long intervals and i think that's just a recipe for disaster, as we are seeing across ALL brands now, Peugeot, Citroen, Ford, VW...
30,000 km on my giulietta, 35,000 km on the previous one (or 2 years, whichever comes first). However, with annual mileage less than 9,000 km I need to do an annual change.
I know that, they are still easily available all over.
I am Oululainen myself
but expatriated to Spain for many years.
. At least every winter reminds me of that 