Valvoline 0w30 Euro Oil

[Dave Hess]

I'm so jealous of those with WM that carry the Pennzoil Euro L. Mine hasn't carried it in several months. They cleared it out then replaced the spot on the shelf

Next time you are out of town stop by a Walmart and get some.

 

[scrllock]

HTHS of M1 0W40 is around 3.6.
I really have no idea where this discussion is going.

What relevance is that? The original comment I made mentioned "high HTHS 502," and then you're comparing relatively thick 30 grades to thin 40 grades. My point is that you can buy a thicker oil with 502 approval than you can buy with a 504 approval. And that me, personally, I have no reason to use a 504 oil. Is it splitting hairs? Sure. But so is suggesting someone switch from a 3.5 HTHS 5w30 oil to a 3.6 HTHS 0w40 oil because of e85


Maybe a more productive line of conversation: you're obviously familiar with the approval testing. Why are there no 30 grade 504 oils which also have 502 approval?

Interesting. Your stance is that 504 won’t lower carbon enough to justify not using 502 for more protection.

504 will not prevent CBU, it just requires less of it. You have to go in and clean the valves eventually. Strictly from a cost perspective, 504 oils were $8-11+/qt for me locally, which adds up. Much cheaper to just pull the manifold and clean them by hand every time you pull the manifold to replace a cooling component.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

What relevance is that? The original comment I made mentioned "high HTHS 502," and then you're comparing relatively thick 30 grades to thin 40 grades. My point is that you can buy a thicker oil with 502 approval than you can buy with a 504 approval. And that me, personally, I have no reason to use a 504 oil. Is it splitting hairs? Sure. But so is suggesting someone switch from a 3.5 HTHS 5w30 oil to a 3.6 HTHS 0w40 oil because of e85


Maybe a more productive line of conversation: you're obviously familiar with the approval testing. Why are there no 30 grade 504 oils which also have 502 approval?



504 will not prevent CBU, it just requires less of it. You have to go in and clean the valves eventually. Strictly from a cost perspective, 504 oils were $8-11+/qt for me locally, which adds up. Much cheaper to just pull the manifold and clean them by hand every time you pull the manifold to replace a cooling component.

I just replaced the water pump on my TSI and the intakes valve were clean at 65,000 miles. There was no need to clean them. So far 504 has paid off.

This, “Maybe a more productive line of conversation: you're obviously familiar with the approval testing. Why are there no 30 grade 504 oils which also have 502 approval?” Is a really good question, that I’d like to see answered.

Another question is why did vw go to a low saps oil in the US when the fuel became compatible? It’s seems like the US just eventually caught up to what the EU had been already been doing.

 

[scrllock]

Another question is why did vw go to a low saps oil in the US when the fuel became compatible? It’s seems like the US just eventually caught up to what the EU had been already been doing.

Partly ULSG, but I'd guess also because of market-wide shifts in emissions limits. In 2019 there was a move from MPI to OPF in EU for soot control, as well as the shift of the more mass-produced models moving to 508. Suddenly cars that were fine with 5w40 moved to 0w30 or 0w20.

Perhaps an even better question: is there any reason to use a 502 oil over a 511 oil? Besides TBN.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

Partly ULSG, but I'd guess also because of market-wide shifts in emissions limits. In 2019 there was a move from MPI to OPF in EU for soot control, as well as the shift of the more mass-produced models moving to 508. Suddenly cars that were fine with 5w40 moved to 0w30 or 0w20.

Perhaps an even better question: is there any reason to use a 502 oil over a 511 oil? Besides TBN.

Maybe intake deposits. I believe it was proven that low saps oil can show less deposits over time.

Why did Audi need another approval (511) when 502 is already available? Maybe CBU was concern?

 

[edyvw]

What relevance is that?

You are bringing it to conversation:

I also don't care about API, but regardless ESP 0w30 is still not a high ZDDP oil compared to 502 M1 40 grades. When a 30 grade oil is preferred (for whatever reason that might be), I would still pick the SL oil if cat life isn't a concern however. I did say a high HTHS 502, not Castrol 5w40, which I think we agree is not the ideal choice.

So, M1 is obviously of relevance to you.
The difference in Zinc between the two is 100ppm (which could be equal between different batches during production), same as phosphorous.
But then, I used Mobil1 0W40 on track with HTHS of 3.6 and ran it to 300f. So, I actually do not have a problem running HTHS of 3.6 on track in sessions as long as 1 1/2hrs without pit stop. There is far more to oil than HTHS.
Also, I have seen my friends using on track VW 504.00 oil, so go figure.

But so is suggesting someone switch from a 3.5 HTHS 5w30 oil to a 3.6 HTHS 0w40 oil because of e85

So basically, you are so insecure about your choice that you have to put words into someone's mouth, because this is what I said:

"Yeah, their tune is designed for track. I mean it is a ok. But look comment above. I would not go anything below W40, something. No esters!"

504 will not prevent CBU, it just requires less of it.

That has been said from the beginning, but somehow (purposely), you are trying to make it that we said it would prevent CBU. For example, I said this:

"Would VW504.00 delay CBU a bit? perhaps."

Now, as far as I am concerned, you can use Costco Extra Virgin oil in your TSI. I worked on the development of VW504.00 oils and VW502.00 oils, oils specifically designed for the VW group, not cross-approved. There is the golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary.

Now, as I said, use whatever you want. Motul 5W40 300V would be a good choice for you.

 

[scrllock]

The difference in Zinc between the two is 100ppm (which could be equal between different batches during production), same as phosphorous.
But then, I used Mobil1 0W40 on track with HTHS of 3.6 and ran it to 300f. So, I actually do not have a problem running HTHS of 3.6 on track in sessions as long as 1 1/2hrs without pit stop. There is far more to oil than HTHS.

More like 200 ppm, according to M1 product guide. You brought up M1, not me.

So basically, you are so insecure about your choice that you have to put words into someone's mouth, because this is what I said:

"Yeah, their tune is designed for track. I mean it is a ok. But look comment above. I would not go anything below W40, something. No esters!"

You did suggest that he switch from a 5w30 LL-04 oil to a 40 grade. Is a 0.1 difference in HTHS only significant when it comes to ethanol, and not general wear? Or is there perhaps another key difference between low and full SAPS oils?

you are trying to make it that we said it would prevent CBU.

"As for CBU, Lubrizol test showed that VW502.00 leave up to 167% more CBU on intake valves than tested VW504.00/507.00."

Your words. Not putting them in your mouth, simply quoting.

Now, as I said, use whatever you want. Motul 5W40 300V would be a good choice for you.

What happened to "no esters!"?

 

[edyvw]

More like 200 ppm, according to M1 product guide. You brought up M1, not me.

If you ever read the fine print, you would see wording "typical values." VOA's show 100ppm difference, sometimes even less.

You did suggest that he switch from a 5w30 LL-04 oil to a 40 grade. Is a 0.1 difference in HTHS only significant when it comes to ethanol, and not general wear? Or is there perhaps another key difference between low and full SAPS oils?

I said at minimum W40 not 0.1. The reason is not wear, but fuel dilution. Nothing to do with wear.

"As for CBU, Lubrizol test showed that VW502.00 leave up to 167% more CBU on intake valves than tested VW504.00/507.00."

Your words. Not putting them in your mouth, simply quoting.

And how does that say it prevents? It clearly states that it leaves less deposits.

What happened to "no esters!"?

Esters and ethanol don't mix. Do you run ethanol? From everything said, I don't think so. My answer was specific to the member who runs ethanol.
Since you are so concerned about ZDDP, 300V is a good option; heck run Valvoline VR1.

 

[MK5Rabbit]

What relevance is that? The original comment I made mentioned "high HTHS 502," and then you're comparing relatively thick 30 grades to thin 40 grades. My point is that you can buy a thicker oil with 502 approval than you can buy with a 504 approval. And that me, personally, I have no reason to use a 504 oil. Is it splitting hairs? Sure. But so is suggesting someone switch from a 3.5 HTHS 5w30 oil to a 3.6 HTHS 0w40 oil because of e85


Maybe a more productive line of conversation: you're obviously familiar with the approval testing. Why are there no 30 grade 504 oils which also have 502 approval?



504 will not prevent CBU, it just requires less of it. You have to go in and clean the valves eventually. Strictly from a cost perspective, 504 oils were $8-11+/qt for me locally, which adds up. Much cheaper to just pull the manifold and clean them by hand every time you pull the manifold to replace a cooling component.

Probably for the average driver 504 would be the better option. Seems to be a more complete oil.

Are you tracking your car? Is that why you want a thicker 502?

 

[scrllock]

If you ever read the fine print, you would see wording "typical values." VOA's show 100ppm difference, sometimes even less.


I said at minimum W40 not 0.1. The reason is not wear, but fuel dilution. Nothing to do with wear.


And how does that say it prevents? It clearly states that it leaves less deposits.



Esters and ethanol don't mix. Do you run ethanol? From everything said, I don't think so. My answer was specific to the member who runs ethanol.
Since you are so concerned about ZDDP, 300V is a good option; heck run Valvoline VR1.

What is the downside to fuel dilution if not wear? They are synonymous.

I do run ethanol sometimes. VR1 is unsuitable on several fronts. Too low HTHS in 10w30 grade, too high in 20w50, but those aren't the proper grades anyway. I'm sure you know this and are taking the piss again.

Probably for the average driver 504 would be the better option. Seems to be a more complete oil.

Are you tracking your car? Is that why you want a thicker 502?

I want a thicker 502 because I am not concerned about fuel economy, cat life, or carbon buildup (I have port injection for this). 504 does nice things if those are your concern. 30 grade oils are certainly fine for the average driver.

 

[edyvw]

What is the downside to fuel dilution if not wear? They are synonymous.

I do run ethanol sometimes. VR1 is unsuitable on several fronts. Too low HTHS in 10w30 grade, too high in 20w50, but those aren't the proper grades anyway. I'm sure you know this and are taking the piss again.


I want a thicker 502 because I am not concerned about fuel economy, cat life, or carbon buildup (I have port injection for this). 504 does nice things if those are your concern. 30 grade oils are certainly fine for the average driver.

So, you have tuned car with port injection. So, what, we should look at the crystal ball and figure that out?

The rules don’t apply in your case. You run oil based on UOA, and how certain oil performs. Not all tunes are the same.
All this discussion is about approved oils which are used in normal engines.
Not sure actually what is your goal here. Why are you arguing about 504.00 or 502.00 oils when for your engine neither might be suitable.
My all premise here is about normal engines. For all intended purposes, you might need 10W50 oil. Who knows. 20W50 is absolutely proper grade when you start messing with an engine depending what is going on.
Do UOA, and see what is happening with oil.

 

[scrllock]

This is wildly off-topic. I explained why I didn't believe running 504 was necessarily the best move. I am not asking you if I should run 20w50.

 

[edyvw]

This is wildly off-topic. I explained why I didn't believe running 504 was necessarily the best move. I am not asking you if I should run 20w50.

You didn’t explain your specific situation.
VW504.00 is preferred approval in normal TSI engine. It has been used by VW sine 2009 in ULSG environments.

 

[savagepassenger]

Yeah, their tune is designed for track. I mean it is a ok. But look comment above. I would not go anything below W40, something. No esters!

That's good to know the temperature at 180 is ok. In the stock dme tuning oil temp would usually hang out around 220 (coolant about 10 degrees lower ofc).

Is the reason for w40 mainly dilution? I wasn't sure if changing it earlier would make a difference. I've been doing oil every 4k miles at least.

 

[edyvw]

That's good to know the temperature at 180 is ok. In the stock dme tuning oil temp would usually hang out around 220 (coolant about 10 degrees lower ofc).

Is the reason for w40 mainly dilution? I wasn't sure if changing it earlier would make a difference. I've been doing oil every 4k miles at least.

Ethanol is alcohol and it will dilute oil faster than gasoline.

 

[loneryder]

Interestingly Valvoline is not approved for MB 229.5X

It says 229.5 and .51..

 

[edyvw]

It says 229.5 and .51..

That is recommended, not approved.

 

[savagepassenger]

Ethanol is alcohol and it will dilute oil faster than gasoline.

Makes sense. Should there be any concern with using a thicker w40 oil since the engine is running a bit cooler? (as far as viscosity goes)

 

[edyvw]

Makes sense. Should there be any concern with using a thicker w40 oil since the engine is running a bit cooler? (as far as viscosity goes)

No. Run something MB229.5 and Porsche A40. Mobil1, Motul, Pennzoil. Do UOA to see where you at.

 

[kschachn]

Makes sense. Should there be any concern with using a thicker w40 oil since the engine is running a bit cooler? (as far as viscosity goes)

Combustion temperature may be lower but you’re claiming the engine runs cooler? Has the thermostat failed?

Also, combustion heat isn’t the number one contributor to the oil heat.