5w30 in a car spec for 0w16

Variable pumps have a PRV too, which might be set lower as part if their "saving" scheme. So just as I said before, they only save a miniscule amount of pumping HP at low RPM where they are cutting back flow that would already be relatively low to begin with an old fashion pump. All for the sake to meet CAFE by flowing as low as possible without causing engine damage. That combined with low HTHS oil makes it two things operating closer to the lower operating limits. No thanks, I'd rather have more buffer. ;)
Think what you want … you always do …
 
Regarding the argument that 0W16 is "not readily available" ...

Yesterday, I went online at Walmart.com and could have purchased Ultra Plus 0W16 SP/GF-6B in a 5 gallon jug for ~$4.50/qt.

It would have been delivered to my porch within 10 days.

The simulated transaction took less than one minute to complete.

I will now go back to reading the BITOG threads about Walmart shelves being empty of HDEO, and other popular, relatively thicker flavors.
:)
 
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Think what you want … you always do …
LoL, how's that any different than how anyone else thinks what they think around here. Variable displacement pumps add more complexity and cost than they are really worth, IMO. Don't have to agree.
 
LoL, how's that any different than how anyone else thinks what they think around here. Variable displacement pumps add more complexity and cost than they are really worth, IMO. Don't have to agree.
You have any experience with them ? … in fact you either read nothing about them or just have your mind made up and did not believe what you read. There are several independent articles dating back to 2014 and the efficiency claims are not mocked like you have done. Look, after owning several 5.7’s … the 5.3’s series came out and I have owned them all and that includes two L83’s … Everyone of them had an oil pressure gauge - so know first hand they work differently … so does my Mopar and past units … Engine designers have done this - like it or not … So did you imply that GM has undersized the lube system for the small block ?
 
You have any experience with them ? … in fact you either read nothing about them or just have your mind made up and did not believe what you read. There are several independent articles dating back to 2014 and the efficiency claims are not mocked like you have done.
I've read plenty about them and they don't save as much power and fuel as people who haven't read up on them would think. Run the pumping HP equations yourself and you'll see they are not some miracle fuel saving device, especially at lower RPM (less than 2500) where engines live most of their life. In order to save pumping HP and save fuel, the oil flow volume needs to be cut back. You can only cut it back so far before causing lack of lubrication problems.

Cutting the flow back from say 3 GPM at 2500 RPM to 1.5 GPM, and assuming both flows are at the same pressure of 25 PSI due to a change in the oiling system design, the pumping HP loss savings at those conditions (if pump was 70% efficient) would only be 23 watts - miniscule.

Look, after owning several 5.7’s … the 5.3’s series came out and I have owned them all and that includes two L83’s … Everyone of them had an oil pressure gauge - so know first hand they work differently … so does my Mopar and past units … Engine designers have done this - like it or not … So did you imply that GM has undersized the lube system for the small block ?
Of course they work differently. They may not be "under designed" but if they cut oil flow then they are operating closer to the under designed limit - that's my point. That's why I'd rather have a bit "too much" flow vs not. The whole purpose of a variable flow pump is to reduce flow to reduce pumping HP loss. Cutting flow too much isn't the best direction to go, so hopefully the engineers still left some buffer zone. But nobody is going to convince me that they are better at lubricating an engine and are the best thing ever invented for an ICE.
 
Variable pumps have a PRV too, which might be set lower as part if their "savings" scheme. So just as I said before, they only save a miniscule amount of pumping HP at low RPM where they are cutting back flow that would already be relatively low to begin with on an old fashion pump. All for the sake to meet CAFE by flowing as low as possible without causing engine damage. That combined with low HTHS oil (for more fuel savings) makes it two things operating closer to the lower operating limits. No thanks, I'd rather have more buffer. ;)
In process safety a PD pump would be called inherently safer, it doEs not require any active management, it is passively managed. By introducing more complicated pump management, you increase the oppurtunnity for failure.
The hiearchy for reliability is inherent in desig followed by passively managed control systems and last is actively managed control systems. Any machine will display more failures as you go from left to right in that hierarchy.
 
^^^ True, and hopefully if there is a failure in the control system that it fail-safes to supplying oil like an old fashion PD pump - ie, more volume than on the minimum required design line.
 
I just got a 21 Prius prime. It has the 2zrfxe engine.
Owners manual recommends 0w16, my question is would 5w30 Pennzoil synthetic be a better choice for longevity?
In the manual it states " an oil with a higher viscosity ( one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

I'm not concerned about losing a few miles to a tank of fuel. I just don't want to put oil that is too thick if it may hurt the engine. I have read other countries allow thicker oils for the same engine, I don't know if the US model prime has a different oil pump that only will work with thin oil.
Will an ACEA A5/B5 - ILSAC type oil in the 5W-30 viscosity work instead of 0W-16? Absolutely! I would stick closer to home though and use something like Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 or Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20 (this one is ACEA C5/MB 229.71 Approved). I would not use an ACEA A3/B4 type oil in that application though.
 
I've read plenty about them and they don't save as much power and fuel as people who haven't read up on them would think. Run the pumping HP equations yourself and you'll see they are not some miracle fuel saving device, especially at lower RPM (less than 2500) where engines live most of their life. In order to save pumping HP and save fuel, the oil flow volume needs to be cut back. You can only cut it back so far before causing lack of lubrication problems.

Cutting the flow back from say 3 GPM at 2500 RPM to 1.5 GPM, and assuming both flows are at the same pressure of 25 PSI due to a change in the oiling system design, the pumping HP loss savings at those conditions (if pump was 70% efficient) would only be 23 watts - miniscule.


Of course they work differently. They may not be "under designed" but if they cut oil flow then they are operating closer to the under designed limit - that's my point. That's why I'd rather have a bit "too much" flow vs not. The whole purpose of a variable flow pump is to reduce flow to reduce pumping HP loss. Cutting flow too much isn't the best direction to go, so hopefully the engineers still left some buffer zone. But nobody is going to convince me that they are better at lubricating an engine and are the best thing ever invented for an ICE.
No … actually the input load required changes in an asymmetrical pump … vane pumps are very efficient …
You have repeatedly misquoted the reasons for these pumps into your beliefs … Dozens of vehicles from many makes come with these … they were all clean sheet designed … multiple benefits …
Anyway … good luck when your old stuff needs replacement …
 
Oh yeah, I see it states that at the very beginning.
I would just stick with 0W20. Easier to find than 0W16.
0W16 isn't hard to find.

The Toyota dealership where I bought my car has 0W16 for less than $8 per quart.

Or... know what's easier? Amazon.

And the Toyota stuff does have a robust EP/AW package
 
No … actually the input load required changes in an asymmetrical pump … vane pumps are very efficient …
You have repeatedly misquoted the reasons for these pumps into your beliefs … Dozens of vehicles from many makes come with these … they were all clean sheet designed … multiple benefits …
Anyway … good luck when your old stuff needs replacement …
It doesn't matter how they are controlled or if they are very efficient, the main purpose is to cut back oil flow to save fuel. And there are many different designs on how to do it, some more complex than others. The vane pumps are still positive displacement, and aren't 100% efficient either. But if they are more efficient because of less internal mechanical rubbing friction then that would help on top of less hydraulic pumping loss (due to decreasing output flow) in the overall decrease in parasitic HP.

If you think these pumps weren't invented to save pumping HP loss and save fuel, then exactly what was the main purpose in your mind?

I haven't "mis-quoted" the reasons they were invented, go read up why and it always points to saving a minisule amount of fuel to try and meet CAFE goals. Post up articles that show the reason is completely otherwise.
 
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So they say (like every article about variable displacement oil pumps in ICE) that the main reason is to save pumping HP loss and to save fuel, exactly what I've "mis-quoted", lol.

BTW, a 30% savings of a small number is also a small difference, like my 23 watt (0.031 HP) diffetence example.

 

0W16 isn't hard to find.

The Toyota dealership where I bought my car has 0W16 for less than $8 per quart.

Or... know what's easier? Amazon.

And the Toyota stuff does have a robust EP/AW package
We're talkin' about a SLUG of moly !!
 
BTW, a 30% savings of a small number is also a small difference, like my 23 watt (0.031 HP) diffetence example.
You are concentrating on the oil pump. The car designer/engineer is looking at the mechanics as a bigger picture. A little here, a little there, adds up to what their goals are.
 
You are concentrating on the oil pump. The car designer/engineer is looking at the mechanics as a bigger picture. A little here, a little there, adds up to what their goals are.
The discussion is specifically about the oil pump, not the dozens of other things done with an ICE to save fuel.
 
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