5w30 in a car spec for 0w16

FWIW, the reason why Toyotas of the last decade or two tend to burn oil might be more design related than oil related. The oil burning the Camry/Corolla/Prius and some of their V6 models is documented on the ‘net. It’s a combination of not enough oil return holes in the pistons and low-tension rings - more so the former getting clogged. Toyota engines tend to run a little hot and hard on oil. Even with OCD, a Prius in the family started to drink oil. A piston soak greatly improved but didn’t completely eradicate the problem.

I ran a Lexus V8 for almost 300K on nothing more than 5W-30, which was considered “thin” in the late 1980s-early 1990s. Of course that car was designed during peak Toyota.
With all due respect, less than current information is being disseminated on this board.

The expertise of CarCareNut should be taken into account.

As a factory certified mechanic, working at a dealership, he has taken apart a Dynamic Force Camry engine to reveal piston ring coking.

Furthermore, CCN shares a personal anecdote. Him and a relative both purchased a 2012 Camry. They had different maintenance plans, and saw different results.

Based upon CarCareNut's personal and professional experiences, he strongly recommends preventative measures. Factory spec'd oil, even the evil TGMO 0W16, with 3 to 5k mile OCIs is the one.

This man is very generous with his inside information, but go ahead y'all, talk to Scotty.
 
With all due respect, less than current information is being disseminated on this board.

The expertise of CarCareNut should be taken into account.

As a factory certified mechanic, working at a dealership, he has taken apart a Dynamic Force Camry engine to reveal piston ring coking.

Furthermore, CCN shares a personal anecdote. Him and a relative both purchased a 2012 Camry. They had different maintenance plans, and saw different results.

Based upon CarCareNut's personal and professional experiences, he strongly recommends preventative measures. Factory spec'd oil, even the evil TGMO 0W16, with 3 to 5k mile OCIs is the one.

This man is very generous with his inside information, but go ahead y'all, talk to Scotty.

With all due respect, less than current information is being disseminated on this board.

The expertise of CarCareNut should be taken into account.

As a factory certified mechanic, working at a dealership, he has taken apart a Dynamic Force Camry engine to reveal piston ring coking.

Furthermore, CCN shares a personal anecdote. Him and a relative both purchased a 2012 Camry. They had different maintenance plans, and saw different results.

Based upon CarCareNut's personal and professional experiences, he strongly recommends preventative measures. Factory spec'd oil, even the evil TGMO 0W16, with 3 to 5k mile OCIs is the one.

This man is very generous with his inside information, but go ahead y'all, talk to Scotty.
The only issue is the engine he is talking about is not the engine that I originally asked the question about. That engine has a special oil pump that changes output levels. I was asking about the 1.8 2zr fxe motor.
I watched his video, very informative because my wife may end up with a newer rav 4 in the next couple years
 
He was not talking about Dynamic Force engines exclusively. A personal anecdote re two 2012 Camry's was shared. Car CareNut has ample experience with your exact engine.

He could not be more succinct.

Use TGMO or M1 or Castrol 0W16 and do 3 to 5k mile OCIs as surefire preventative maintenance. Keep the rings sparkling clean. There is no need to get sidetracked with thick oil troglodytism.

I sure wish I knew this when my 2005 Tacoma came up for its first California smog check at 550k miles ! I had to replace the cat with a factory cat only. I got to meet a state employee, a dude called "The Smog Referee." What a joke.
 
He was not talking about Dynamic Force engines exclusively. A personal anecdote re two 2012 Camry's was shared. Car CareNut has ample experience with your exact engine.

He could not be more succinct.

Use TGMO or M1 or Castrol 0W16 and do 3 to 5k mile OCIs as surefire preventative maintenance. Keep the rings sparkling clean. There is no need to get sidetracked with thick oil troglodytism.

I sure wish I knew this when my 2005 Tacoma came up for its first California smog check at 550k miles ! I had to replace the cat with a factory cat only. I got to meet a state employee, a dude called "The Smog Referee." What a joke.
what was the reason you had to meet the referee?
 
I sure wish I knew this when my 2005 Tacoma came up for its first California smog check at 550k miles ! I had to replace the cat with a factory cat only. I got to meet a state employee, a dude called "The Smog Referee." What a joke.

Yea, my smog guy said with all the Prius decatting going on people are installing cat shields.

He’s failing those cars on the spot since he can’t check to see if the cat was a factory or OEM replacement one with the shield on. Even though there is no CARB-approved aftermarket replacement for the gen 2-current cars.
 
With all due respect, less than current information is being disseminated on this board.

The expertise of CarCareNut should be taken into account.

As a factory certified mechanic, working at a dealership, he has taken apart a Dynamic Force Camry engine to reveal piston ring coking.

Furthermore, CCN shares a personal anecdote. Him and a relative both purchased a 2012 Camry. They had different maintenance plans, and saw different results.

Based upon CarCareNut's personal and professional experiences, he strongly recommends preventative measures. Factory spec'd oil, even the evil TGMO 0W16, with 3 to 5k mile OCIs is the one.

This man is very generous with his inside information, but go ahead y'all, talk to Scotty.
5K OCIs with synthetic is my MO for almost everything I care for. On the 2nd gen Prius in the family(my car), that car saw M1 or PP 5-30 and OEM filters almost exclusively. I noticed the oil burning happening at the 140K mark.

I’ll still send CCN a PM. My research isn’t here exclusively - it’s antecdotes from TN/PriusChat and whatever searching I’ve done on the 2000s era Camry/Corolla with the 2AZ-FE/1ZZ-FE.
 
5K OCIs with synthetic is my MO for almost everything I care for. On the 2nd gen Prius in the family(my car), that car saw M1 or PP 5-30 and OEM filters almost exclusively. I noticed the oil burning happening at the 140K mark.

I’ll still send CCN a PM. My research isn’t here exclusively - it’s antecdotes from TN/PriusChat and whatever searching I’ve done on the 2000s era Camry/Corolla with the 2AZ-FE/1ZZ-FE.
1NZ-FXE.
1.5L PriusC.
Atkinson Cycle.
I-4.
Ravenol 0W16 EFE.
~ 8k mile OCIs.
Spec'd in USA for 0W20.
Zero oil comsumption to 120k & then ~ 140k miles,
in two successive cars.
 
5K OCIs with synthetic is my MO for almost everything I care for. On the 2nd gen Prius in the family(my car), that car saw M1 or PP 5-30 and OEM filters almost exclusively. I noticed the oil burning happening at the 140K mark.

I’ll still send CCN a PM. My research isn’t here exclusively - it’s antecdotes from TN/PriusChat and whatever searching I’ve done on the 2000s era Camry/Corolla with the 2AZ-FE/1ZZ-FE.
I posit that your issue was high Viscosity Index and large dose Viscosity Index Improvers.

IMHO, for many applications, the ticket is narrow range viscosity, low VI, and lots of moly.

I have had great results over the years with...
--Ravenol EFE 0W16.
--Red Line High Performance 0W20.
--High Performance Lubricants HDMO 0W16.
 
The GM TSB (not "memo") was because of the location of the oil pressure sensor and the possible surge of oil volume at a cold start-up that could happen (and cause the oil filter to bypass crud with thick cold oil, even with 0W-20) before the variable pump output volume could become controlled. I think you're misunderstanding the big picture on that one. Doesn't mean the engine needs more oil flow because the engine is "starved" or needs/has more oil flow because it uses 0W-20 oil. A regular old PD pump could do a fine job too, but at the cost of maybe a hair of lost fuel economy but with less complexity.

You have flow specs of the old pump vs new pump designs vs engine RPM to verify there was a big increase in flow with the new pump? And comparitive oil temperatures between the engines also showing more flow was needed when using 0W-20?


Yes, I have a single point of view/focus, and your claim that I've "mis-spoken" about why variable oil pumps exist is false. Every write-up about them says what I've said why they exist, so you might as well just call me a liar because that's how it came across when I read that comment, even though every article written (including SAE articles) say the main reason VVOPs exist is to save fuel. That's the focus, and the variable volume oil pump wasn't invented for any other reasons, regardless of how you might think it pertains to your specific engine. The bottom line is they are to help save a miniscule amount of fuel. Good that they work, but like I said more complicated than they're worth IMO, and could care less if anyone agrees or not.


Probably best at this point since you can't show any proof that VVOPs weren't invented to save fuel and instead for some other reasons. Agree to disagree as it's just going in circles now. ;):)
You have stated that these pumps under delivered oil at critical RPM’s. No, they don’t … Yet you also do technical writing and know why both GM bulletins started out with engines now having high flow requirements … the extreme cold comments were made towards the end and post dated engines (in the filter upgrades) to include 5w30 and old “dumb” pumps … The new gens run 0W20 … as does the Jeep and car at 155k …

So if all the (many) OEM’s meant to do was please CAFE at the expense of critical flow … seems they just needed a smaller version of the same pump they had … Why not just do that ?
These pumps do deliver less as appropriate … and quickly more when the ECM sees parameters in demand.
(Change driven by increased HP/temps, MPG, and emissions standards - part of hydraulic controls and jet cooling)

The last two days I left my Jeep screen on oil pressure … one because of the claims made by Baxter … but I’m seeing oil pressure come up right away. The other reason was to compare to GM. The spike to max is also fast … maybe not as clean since one is a V8/6 speed/3.42 and the other V6/8 speed/4.10 … one digital and one digital analog … so the Jeep stays up on RPM more often anyway … quick to reach 80 psi and quick to drop back to 31 psi … so it goes both higher and lower than the GM (75/37) but still easy to spot the high flow stage …

These two have gauges as did my previous engines in that same line with conventional pumps. Very different
The 145k and 155k cars we have/had with these pumps did not have gauges … but no oil consumption either …

Frankly I don’t see this much different than my two stage HVAC unit … and it’s not on CAFE stage right now 😎
 
yes. i actually made a thread about a 2021 yaris hybrid using the all new 0w-8 all the way to 5w-30 printed in the owners manual and it is true.

Yes having a bit more film thickness does increase engine longevity and these thinner oils are known for wearing a bit more but it being an ev you probably wont run the engine that much. In hybrid mode it should use the motor to accelerate and the engine to then have a consistent speed so it should cruise a bit more and would wear out less naturally than an engine having to accelerate on gas power.

Honestly id still use at least a 0w-20 but a 5w-30 wouldn't hurt.
 
yes. i actually made a thread about a 2021 yaris hybrid using the all new 0w-8 all the way to 5w-30 printed in the owners manual and it is true.

Yes having a bit more film thickness does increase engine longevity and these thinner oils are known for wearing a bit more but it being an ev you probably wont run the engine that much. In hybrid mode it should use the motor to accelerate and the engine to then have a consistent speed so it should cruise a bit more and would wear out less naturally than an engine having to accelerate on gas power.

Honestly id still use at least a 0w-20 but a 5w-30 wouldn't hurt.
Yep … electric motors taking on the “load” getting the mass in motion …
 
You have stated that these pumps under delivered oil at critical RPM’s. No, they don’t … Yet you also do technical writing and know why both GM bulletins started out with engines now having high flow requirements … the extreme cold comments were made towards the end and post dated engines (in the filter upgrades) to include 5w30 and old “dumb” pumps … The new gens run 0W20 … as does the Jeep and car at 155k …
Now you're just making stuff up about what I've said ... I never said "they under deliver oil at critical RPM". I said if they cut too much oil flow it could be a problem if not done correctly. Cut oil flow back too far and see what happens.

Just what are these "high flow requirements" that GM is talking about. Again, do you have actual flow specs of these engines vs engine RPM data? How do you know these new pumps put out more GPM vs engine RPM than the old PD pumps did ... just because GM used the words "high flow requirements"?

So if all the (many) OEM’s meant to do was please CAFE at the expense of critical flow … seems they just needed a smaller version of the same pump they had … Why not just do that ?
Because they decided to use a VVOP to cut oil flow back at certain RPM to try and get a sliver more MPG ... for CAFE credits and emissions requirements of course, and to make it look more economical to buyers who might care about MPG.

These pumps do deliver less as appropriate … and quickly more when the ECM sees parameters in demand.(Change driven by increased HP/temps, MPG, and emissions standards - part of hydraulic controls and jet cooling) .
I highly doubt the VVOP is wrapped all around hydraulic controls and jet cooling. Of course it better deliver at least the minimum to get the job done. The pump delivers oil to the main gallery, not different flows to individual oil circuits to all those parts. Oil jet flow is basically controlled by the size of the oil jet orifice and the supply pressure ... same with hydraulic controls like cam phasers, etc.

The last two days I left my Jeep screen on oil pressure … one because of the claims made by Baxter … but I’m seeing oil pressure come up right away. The other reason was to compare to GM. The spike to max is also fast … maybe not as clean since one is a V8/6 speed/3.42 and the other V6/8 speed/4.10 … one digital and one digital analog … so the Jeep stays up on RPM more often anyway … quick to reach 80 psi and quick to drop back to 31 psi … so it goes both higher and lower than the GM (75/37) but still easy to spot the high flow stage …These two have gauges as did my previous engines in that same line with conventional pumps. Very different The 145k and 155k cars we have/had with these pumps did not have gauges … but no oil consumption either …Frankly I don’t see this much different than my two stage HVAC unit … and it’s not on CAFE stage right now 😎
So you're whole knowledge of VVOPs and why they exist and how they perform is all based on watching your oil pressure gauge ... 😄

Have you actually search for write-ups on VVOPs to see for yourself on why they exist? Like I said, every one of them will say that VVOPs exist because they are used to try and save fuel, which also cuts down on emissions. If CAFE didn't exist, neither would VVOPs. I'm still waiting for those links that show they were invented for some other reasons.

Why do you think they were invented? ... you never seem to come up with an answer to that question.
 
Ive got over 20K on my Rav4 Hybrid and only been using 0w-20. The manual for this model does say a thicker grade can be used when doing alot of "high speed" driving. I tow with the vehicle.
The question begs to be asked...

What do you tow with your vehicle?
 
Just pointing out that CAFE is the driver for the use of variable displacement oil pumps.


And how is that better when it's a more complicated system (especially if computer controlled) and supplying less oil flow at higher RPM (to save 0.05 MPG) than an old fashion PD oil pump? I'd rather have a bit too much oil flow going through the oiling system than "just enough". Same with viscosity and HTHS viscosity/MOFT.
^^^^Right here^^^^
 
^^^^Right here^^^^
LoL ... I think you need to interpret things a bit better and not twist things up in your head. How does cutting back oil flow to save some fuel equate to "You have stated that these pumps under delivered oil at critical RPM’s"?

Stop making things up.
 
LoL ... I think you need to interpret things a bit better and not twist things up in your head. How does cutting back oil flow to save some fuel equate to "You have stated that these pumps under delivered oil at critical RPM’s"?

Stop making things up.
You wrote what you wrote … that’s not making anything up … and you wrote the same stuff in many posts.
Now you want to cocky because I posted numbers from real vehicles that don’t fit your narrative …
Others can make the same observations …
 
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