0W-20 Oil Preference: Toyota / Lexus

FZ1

Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
5,868
Location
Texas
Good morning everyone,
So I know this can be a somewhat controversial topic and is often a topic filled with a lot of bias, and very little facts, but I am pulling out my own hair trying to figure out which 0W-20 oil to use in my car. So in my last oil change at 4500 miles I used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 and it's been working fine. The main reason for choosing it was that there was a $25 Mail In Rebate and the 15 year powertrain warranty was certainly very appealing. However, as of late, it is either sold out everywhere or it is ridiculously priced because of scalpers reselling it. So I am branching out trying to find a readily available oil that I can use for years to come without any issues. I would love to hear everyone's insight on what they would prefer. All of these options bear an GF-6A rating and an SP Service Category so they are as Apples to Apples as can be.
  1. Toyota Genuine Motor Oil: $36.48 for a case of 6 Quarts. It's the same thing our dealers are supposed to be using (although theirs come in 55 gallon drums) and I would certainly hope that it is readily available at any dealer. I understand that it is made by Exxon, but according to my research on other forums, it is not the same as simply purchasing Mobil 1 off the shelf as it has a special formulation requested by Toyota that has a buttload of moly compared to the off the shelf variants of Mobil oil. Some have said it's a great thing, while some believe it is not. The jury is still out on that one. I did however notice that compared to the PUP in my car, the TGMO in our Highlander was a lot more liquidy and it was dripping off the dip stick easier.
  2. Mobil 1: Roughly $15 for a 5 quart jug after mail-in rebate. I am considering either the Extended Performance or the Advanced Fuel Economy variant. My Oil Change Interval is 5,000 miles so I won't use it for the 20,000 miles that EP is rated for, but if it is a better formulation I don't mind using it at all.
  3. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum: $25 for a 5 Quart Jug in a normal world, $49 currently. If it comes highly recommended I will try sourcing it somehow but as stated, I'm flexible on what I should use.
I would love everyone's feedback on that. I will be using this oil in my '22 IS350, but I intend to also use it in our '22 Highlander V6 as well as our '16 Corolla. While I know that some advocate for using a higher weight oil such as 5W-20, that is not something that I am interested in doing as I want to minimize the risk of voiding my warranty as much as possible, especially since the manual calls for 0W-20 GF-6A oil. Thank you all!
PUP 0w-20. It's a thick 20w.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
44
Location
Illinois
Nothing that’s statistically significant, but part of the “fun” of this board is proving things that specifications already told us same-rated oils would work exchangeably without any difference over the lifetime of the engine.

IMHO, save the $ on the UOA and use it to buy the best air & oil filters you can find. Those will make a bigger difference in the lifetime performance of your engine than any oil with the required certifications will.
That’s true but because I have a modified car and it’s direct injection and the fact I’m running e85 and the engines already suffer from fuel dilution I just want to see how bad it is and if the 0w20 sheared if not I’ll stay with 0w20 if it did shear I’ll step up to 5w30.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,064
Location
Ontario, Canada
I was just making a statement. Idk why that guy is so hated on these boards. UOA of QSFS show excellent results.
Because his "tests" have been paraded through the streets (metaphorically) on here an insane number of times and held up on the mountain like Moses himself etched it on the tablets, presented as some sort of wear-performance gospel. This is despite it being repeatedly pointed out that what is being performed is essentially an EP test, which is great... if you plan on lubing a differential :sneaky:

But, if that's not the goal, then looking at manufacturer approvals is going to be far more productive.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
53,064
Location
Ontario, Canada
That’s true but because I have a modified car and it’s direct injection and the fact I’m running e85 and the engines already suffer from fuel dilution I just want to see how bad it is and if the 0w20 sheared if not I’ll stay with 0w20 if it did shear I’ll step up to 5w30.
If you are concerned about shear, then I hope you are using a lab that uses GC to measure fuel so that you know if your viscosity loss is from fuel dilution (insanely common with DI) or from mechanical shear.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,503
Location
GA.
I think QSFS 0W20 is an excellent oil with plenty of protection ... Some have stated they get some varnish with Quaker State synthetic oil versus Pennzoil or M1 synthetic oils (but that could be addressed with the new SP/ GF-6 / D1 Gen 3 rated oils) ?
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
58
Location
London ENGLAND
Personally, for any Toyota/Lexus that is new enough to require the 0w20, I use the genuine stuff since I get the filters from the dealer anyway and they normally do a good price. I am convinced its a good oil for a good price, and convenient. In Europe at least, I'm not convinced that the Euro additive packs have much in common with the Japanese so whilst there are excellent premium oils from various manufacturers, there are very few that claim to be aimed at Asian makes - which is something I've noticed is more common in the USA.
 
Joined
May 9, 2022
Messages
21
I switched from 0w-20 Valvoline EP to 5w-30 Valvoline EP in my 2022 Tacoma. Noticeably smoother and quieter, but I do live in a hot climate and do not need the cold weather starting protecting.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,809
Personally, for any Toyota/Lexus that is new enough to require the 0w20, I use the genuine stuff since I get the filters from the dealer anyway and they normally do a good price. I am convinced its a good oil for a good price, and convenient. In Europe at least, I'm not convinced that the Euro additive packs have much in common with the Japanese so whilst there are excellent premium oils from various manufacturers, there are very few that claim to be aimed at Asian makes - which is something I've noticed is more common in the USA.
In my estimation, the quality of TGMO is pretty low. Notwithstanding that the oil is supposedly made by Mobil, it is made to Toyota specs and @OVERKILL mentioned that thinner, lower-quality, base stocks and plenty of viscosity improvers are used to create the package. I'd prefer M1 EP, Valvoline, and Castrol myself, and I do use M1 EP.

I just noticed that you're in England, so it's possible that the TGMO oil found there may be different than that which is found here in the states. You might care to look into it, or not ...
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
22,969
Location
Upper Midwest
In Europe at least, I'm not convinced that the Euro additive packs have much in common with the Japanese so whilst there are excellent premium oils from various manufacturers, there are very few that claim to be aimed at Asian makes - which is something I've noticed is more common in the USA.
European approvals are performance requirements that are agnostic to country of origin. None would be “aimed” at Asian markets but that is irrelevant.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
58
Location
London ENGLAND
In my estimation, the quality of TGMO is pretty low. Notwithstanding that the oil is supposedly made by Mobil, it is made to Toyota specs and @OVERKILL mentioned that thinner, lower-quality, base stocks and plenty of viscosity improvers are used to create the package. I'd prefer M1 EP, Valvoline, and Castrol myself, and I do use M1 EP.

I just noticed that you're in England, so it's possible that the TGMO oil found there may be different than that which is found here in the states. You might care to look into it, or not ...
It most probably is different. There was some guesswork on this thread that you commented on a while back: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-vs-lexus.353837/#post-6092795
I would like to send some samples off to a lab for analysis one day to find out.


European approvals are performance requirements that are agnostic to country of origin. None would be “aimed” at Asian markets but that is irrelevant.
Not sure I follow, I'm talking about the manufacturer approvals, many of which are incompatible, to the extent that no additive packs exist that can meet certain combinations of specs. You can't have a single oil that meets them all, and there are at least one example of a Euro oil manufacturer who was investigated and got in trouble for claiming their oil met multiple VW specs. Here in Europe, the reputable manufacturers will have a VAG 501/504 oil, a DEXOS oil, a MB oil, JLR etc. but its rare to see anything that says Toyota/Lexus or Asian vehicles.

I know Toyota doesn't specify anything other than ACEA / API or ILSAC depending on vehicle/market, but the fact that the others do and some of them conflict, it makes it quite difficult to know whether to pick up the VAG bottle or the MB bottle or the Volvo one - hence the dealership oil, whether its made by Total or Mobil1 seems to be a safe bet.


To share a clear example, the Mobil1 oil match webpage returns a particular oil for a Toyota Auris hybrid (same powertrain as Prius). This is what it returns:
Mobil 1™ ESP x2 0W-20 is an SHC Synthese Technology engine oil specifically designed to provide outstanding engine cleanliness, wear protection, strong durability and advanced fuel economy* to keep your engine running like new. Mobil 1 ESP x2 0W-20 is our latest technology combining durability and protection with a low viscosity, low friction engine oil that was designed in cooperation with key European Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs). Mobil 1 ESP x2 0W-20 has been expertly engineered to help prolong the life and maintain the efficiency of emission systems in new emerging diesel and gasoline powered European vehicles that require SAE 0W-20 viscosity grades.

Specifications and Approvals​

This product has the following approvals:
GM dexosD Licensed
MB-Approval 229.71
Porsche C20
VW 508 00
VW 509 00

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SL
ACEA C5
API SN Engine Test Requirements
API SN PLUS ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS
API SP ENGINE TEST REQUIREMENTS

Note that these are all/mostly aimed at after emissions systems like DPF or GPF compatibility, which is incredibly important for European light duty diesel cars which basically all have DPFs now. None of those requirements apply to our Toyotas/Lexus, nor does it apply to Honda, Suzuki or Mitsubishi.
source: https://www.mobil.co.uk/en-gb/product/mobil-1-esp-x2-0w-20/
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2022
Messages
854
This gets argued all the time on the Toyota boards - pages of arguments. You show someone a oil spec for the same engine from a different country they will argue all kinds of things - like different engine / hybrid packages / transmissions which are sometimes true. So I found that in Australia they sell a Rav4 trim that is identical to mine - the Rav4 "Edge"" trim which only comes with the 2.5 naturally aspirated and 8 speed automatic.

Here I can use 0w-16 SN+ / resource conserving. I can use 0w-20 in a pinch but I MUST change back to 0w-16 in 5000 miles.

In Australia I can use anything from 0w-16 to 15w40 SN not even plus, resource conserving, depending on temps.

Toyota historically make good engines. Probably more important to change frequently and use a good filter rather than worry about what brand.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,809
It most probably is different. There was some guesswork on this thread that you commented on a while back: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-vs-lexus.353837/#post-6092795
I would like to send some samples off to a lab for analysis one day to find out.
What would you like to find out? You probably won't find out anything about base stocks and viscosity improvers. I say probably because the labs where you are may do things differently than the labs here.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
22,969
Location
Upper Midwest
It most probably is different. There was some guesswork on this thread that you commented on a while back: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-vs-lexus.353837/#post-6092795
I would like to send some samples off to a lab for analysis one day to find out.



Not sure I follow, I'm talking about the manufacturer approvals, many of which are incompatible, to the extent that no additive packs exist that can meet certain combinations of specs. You can't have a single oil that meets them all, and there are at least one example of a Euro oil manufacturer who was investigated and got in trouble for claiming their oil met multiple VW specs. Here in Europe, the reputable manufacturers will have a VAG 501/504 oil, a DEXOS oil, a MB oil, JLR etc. but its rare to see anything that says Toyota/Lexus or Asian vehicles.

I know Toyota doesn't specify anything other than ACEA / API or ILSAC depending on vehicle/market, but the fact that the others do and some of them conflict, it makes it quite difficult to know whether to pick up the VAG bottle or the MB bottle or the Volvo one - hence the dealership oil, whether its made by Total or Mobil1 seems to be a safe bet.


To share a clear example, the Mobil1 oil match webpage returns a particular oil for a Toyota Auris hybrid (same powertrain as Prius). This is what it returns:



Note that these are all/mostly aimed at after emissions systems like DPF or GPF compatibility, which is incredibly important for European light duty diesel cars which basically all have DPFs now. None of those requirements apply to our Toyotas/Lexus, nor does it apply to Honda, Suzuki or Mitsubishi.
source: https://www.mobil.co.uk/en-gb/product/mobil-1-esp-x2-0w-20/
I’m not sure I follow either. Again, an approval is performance based and isn’t tied to country of origin or make. Oxidation resistance, piston cleanliness, reduced wear, resistance to ring sticking or cylinder wear, viscosity retention - these are what define the performance of an oil.

For a low to mid-SAPS oil (which is appropriate for nearly every passenger car), something with ACEA sequence C3 and paired with VW 504 00 is a very good oil. It won’t know it’s in a Japanese car or one from China.

The reason you don’t see approvals for Japanese models is because there aren’t any. At least none that I know of. That in no way makes them inappropriate however.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2022
Messages
854
The reason you don’t see approvals for Japanese models is because there aren’t any.
JASO is the oil regulatory spec for Japan - you don't see it here because it typically matches current ILSAC or API specs.

My limited understanding is that ILSAC 6 more or less just followed the Japanese lead. THey were using 0w-16 in Japan long before we were, and are now using 0w-8 even, and those JASO specs were developed for gas mileage and to help with LSPI and followed by ILSAC.

You can argue whether that is a good or bad thing.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
5,874
Location
Paramount, California
Good morning everyone,
So I know this can be a somewhat controversial topic and is often a topic filled with a lot of bias, and very little facts, but I am pulling out my own hair trying to figure out which 0W-20 oil to use in my car. So in my last oil change at 4500 miles I used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 and it's been working fine. The main reason for choosing it was that there was a $25 Mail In Rebate and the 15 year powertrain warranty was certainly very appealing. However, as of late, it is either sold out everywhere or it is ridiculously priced because of scalpers reselling it. So I am branching out trying to find a readily available oil that I can use for years to come without any issues. I would love to hear everyone's insight on what they would prefer. All of these options bear an GF-6A rating and an SP Service Category so they are as Apples to Apples as can be.
  1. Toyota Genuine Motor Oil: $36.48 for a case of 6 Quarts. It's the same thing our dealers are supposed to be using (although theirs come in 55 gallon drums) and I would certainly hope that it is readily available at any dealer. I understand that it is made by Exxon, but according to my research on other forums, it is not the same as simply purchasing Mobil 1 off the shelf as it has a special formulation requested by Toyota that has a buttload of moly compared to the off the shelf variants of Mobil oil. Some have said it's a great thing, while some believe it is not. The jury is still out on that one. I did however notice that compared to the PUP in my car, the TGMO in our Highlander was a lot more liquidy and it was dripping off the dip stick easier.
  2. Mobil 1: Roughly $15 for a 5 quart jug after mail-in rebate. I am considering either the Extended Performance or the Advanced Fuel Economy variant. My Oil Change Interval is 5,000 miles so I won't use it for the 20,000 miles that EP is rated for, but if it is a better formulation I don't mind using it at all.
  3. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum: $25 for a 5 Quart Jug in a normal world, $49 currently. If it comes highly recommended I will try sourcing it somehow but as stated, I'm flexible on what I should use.
I would love everyone's feedback on that. I will be using this oil in my '22 IS350, but I intend to also use it in our '22 Highlander V6 as well as our '16 Corolla. While I know that some advocate for using a higher weight oil such as 5W-20, that is not something that I am interested in doing as I want to minimize the risk of voiding my warranty as much as possible, especially since the manual calls for 0W-20 GF-6A oil. Thank you all!
For a Toyota with a $5,000-mile OCI, nothing better than Walmart Super Tech is needed. There is no reason for 0W-20—stick with 0W-16.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
5,874
Location
Paramount, California
I’m not sure I follow either. Again, an approval is performance based and isn’t tied to country of origin or make. Oxidation resistance, piston cleanliness, reduced wear, resistance to ring sticking or cylinder wear, viscosity retention - these are what define the performance of an oil.

For a low to mid-SAPS oil (which is appropriate for nearly every passenger car), something with ACEA sequence C3 and paired with VW 504 00 is a very good oil. It won’t know it’s in a Japanese car or one from China.

The reason you don’t see approvals for Japanese models is because there aren’t any. At least none that I know of. That in no way makes them inappropriate however.
ACEA A5/B5, A7/B7, C2, C5, and C6 are compatible with ILSAC. ACEA A3/B4, C3, and C4 are not compatible with ILSAC.

ACEA A7/B7 and C6, which are both compatible with ILSAC, are the strictest specs for wear and deposits, not A3/B4, C3, and C4. However, I should note that the uncommon C4 low-SAPS spec is the one with the lowest Noack (11% or less), as they make up for the low TBN with high base-oil quality to meet the OCI length. The other ACEA specs have Noack = 13% or less.

Moreover, there is no 0W-16 or thinner category in ACEA.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
22,969
Location
Upper Midwest
ACEA A5/B5, A7/B7, C2, C5, and C6 are compatible with ILSAC. ACEA A3/B4, C3, and C4 are not compatible with ILSAC.

ACEA A7/B7 and C6, which are both compatible with ILSAC, are the strictest specs for wear and deposits, not A3/B4, C3, and C4. However, I should note that the uncommon C4 low-SAPS spec is the one with the lowest Noack (11% or less), as they make up for the low TBN with high base-oil quality to meet the OCI length. The other ACEA specs have Noack = 13% or less.

Moreover, there is no 0W-16 or thinner category in ACEA.
No idea what you’re trying to say here. I’ve never tried to be “compatible” with an ILSAC oil. Please explain in detail how a VW 504 00 oil isn’t compatible with a Japanese engine.

And as far as the grade goes I’m even less worried about that. Surely you’re not suggesting that the increased HT/HS is detrimental to the engine.

Sometimes I do like to read the posts you make but other times you’re off the island - for whatever reasons I’m not sure.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
5,874
Location
Paramount, California
No idea what you’re trying to say here. I’ve never tried to be “compatible” with an ILSAC oil. Please explain in detail how a VW 504 00 oil isn’t compatible with a Japanese engine.

And as far as the grade goes I’m even less worried about that. Surely you’re not suggesting that the increased HT/HS is detrimental to the engine.

Sometimes I do like to read the posts you make but other times you’re off the island - for whatever reasons I’m not sure.
I never said anything about a higher HTHS being detrimental to an engine. What I said was that Japanese OEMs spec ILSAC for their vehicles, which restricts HTHS to a maximum of ~ 3.0 cP. Since you cannot have an ILSAC-approved oil with HTHS = 3.5 cP, such oils fall outside of OEM recommendations for Japanese vehicles. The same goes for most American OEMs, who also spec ILSAC for their vehicles.

The API starburst designates ILSAC GF-6A and lower oils, and the API shield designates ILSAC GF-6B oils.

starburst.png
EOLCS_SAE_SHIELD.jpg
 
Top