VW 508.00 Does it really matter?

[BMWTurboDzl]

It simply isn’t that hard to find and use the correct oil- so why use an oil that lacks the OEM approval?

Wrench boredom aka "Because I can, therefore I must".

 

[wemay]

I respect the 508/509 specification that seems to require higher percentage of pao base stocks. If wanted extremely high quality oil for vehicle requiring 0w20 oil-I would likely use this specification because of the high quality base stocks.

It does not require higher PAO content. M1 0W-20 EP has more PAO content than any 508.00 oil except maybe Ravenol.

 

[wemay]

Did a first oil change on my gf's new golf at 3000 miles. Ended up putting Castrol 0W20 synthetic and plan to change it every 3000 miles.

From what I've read in this thread, the VW508 has a special dye and designed for longer OCI. If I'm changing it every 3000 miles, does it even matter if I just use a normal 0w20?

Also, was planning on using OEM filter at 6000 miles in case she wants to bring it to the dealership for oil change at the 10,000 miles mark so she's able to maintain her warranty. I am curious, is there a way for them to tell that the oil that was used was not VW508? I'm sure the dye is only visible for new oil and not used oil... so in that regard, I don't think there is a way for them to tell?

Outside of warranty concern, i see no issue here. If you want to change the oil every 3000 miles with an SP dexos1 oil, i can't see why it wouldn't work when the PDS of all these oils is similar. The VW turbo applications can run on these oils just as easily and reliably as Honda turbos, GM turbos and Ford turbos etc.

 

[Greasymechtech]

508 allows, whether the blender uses it or not, about ~10% more zddp than API

Knowing that some other VW's had engine parts wear on certain components, I would definitely want that 508 oil, or a equivalent more zinc oil than API allows.

How much Z/P does the 0w20 ESP(508/C20) oil use compared to the other 0w20 grades?

Oil change interval doesn't make up for lack of protection.

 

[wemay]

508 allows, whether the blender uses it or not, about ~10% more zddp than API

Knowing that some other VW's had engine parts wear on certain components, I would definitely want that 508 oil, or a equivalent more zinc oil than API allows.

How much Z/P does the 0w20 ESP(508/C20) oil use compared to the other 0w20 grades?

Oil change interval doesn't make up for lack of protection.

I understand your point and it's well taken, but other's could pose the argument that the 70% PAO in EP 0W20 vs the 30% in ESP X2 is more just as important. As @kschachn has stated, I prefer a higher HTHS if straying from the specific approval but if your saying VW engines need more help than Honda, Ford or GM, then something's wrong with my engine. I doubt that's the case.

Below is the Zinc levels in various M1 oils in case folks dont wish to download your link.

 

[The Critic]

I understand your point and it's well taken, but other's could pose the argument that the 70% PAO in EP 0W20 vs the 30% in ESP X2 is more just as important. As @kschachn has stated, I prefer a higher HTHS if straying from the specific approval but if your saying VW engines need more help than Honda, Ford or GM, then something's wrong with my engine. I doubt that's the case.

Below is the Zinc levels in various M1 oils in case folks dont wish to download your link.

View attachment 39468
View attachment 39469

I think you are incorrectly assuming that base oils and P/Zn are the only two components that can affect an oil's wear performance.

 

[wemay]

I think you are incorrectly assuming that base oils and P/Zn are the only two components that can affect an oil's wear performance.

No, it was in response to another poster pointing out one element of 508 (Zinc). So i did the same with one ingredient of another oil. Nothing really to do with the entire makeup of the oils of which we know, both are excellent. Each skinning the cat with different add packs.

 

[weasley]

508 allows, whether the blender uses it or not, about ~10% more zddp than API

Knowing that some other VW's had engine parts wear on certain components, I would definitely want that 508 oil, or a equivalent more zinc oil than API allows.

Good input.

To be pedantic (as I am) neither API nor VW specify ZDDP levels. Both rely on minimum and maximum phosphorus levels (so the focus on zinc is also a bit misguided, since it is the P in ZDDP that does the work). Being properly pedantic, the VW 508 00 spec doesn't actually have a P limit directly, but requires that ACEA C5 is covered, which includes a 0.07 - 0.09% P requirement (for clarity, API SP requires 0.06 - 0.08% for 0W/5W-16/20/30 and 10W-30 with no upper P limit for other viscosities).

Since engine oils generally get their phosphorus from ZDDP, which is also usually the only source of zinc, it is not unreasonable to associate higher zinc with higher ZDDP and this with beneficial wear protection. The type of ZDDP can be important though, and Zn ratios can vary - these are the detailed games that are played by oil formulators to deliver performance results within the constraints they are bound by.

 

[wemay]

Good input.

To be pedantic (as I am) neither API nor VW specify ZDDP levels. Both rely on minimum and maximum phosphorus levels (so the focus on zinc is also a bit misguided, since it is the P in ZDDP that does the work). Being properly pedantic, the VW 508 00 spec doesn't actually have a P limit directly, but requires that ACEA C5 is covered, which includes a 0.07 - 0.09% P requirement (for clarity, API SP requires 0.06 - 0.08% for 0W/5W-16/20/30 and 10W-30 with no upper P limit for other viscosities).

Since engine oils generally get their phosphorus from ZDDP, which is also usually the only source of zinc, it is not unreasonable to associate higher zinc with higher ZDDP and this with beneficial wear protection. The type of ZDDP can be important though, and Zn ratios can vary - these are the detailed games that are played by oil formulators to deliver performance results within the constraints they are bound by.

Much appreciated

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

VW 508.00 to my understanding is to 'help' the fleet mpg.

Quoting another poster here " VW508.00/509.00 is ridiculously easy spec to meet. There is NOTHING in that spec that is special except that increases mpg. "

Well if that was the case how come no one has the approval on the bottles yet even though it's been out a couple of years?
cracks me up how people think they know everything about oil because they're on this website.
so tell us exactly how there's nothing in that spec that's special I would love to know your breakdown and your wisdom obviously you know better than Volkswagen engineers so I would love to hear your explanation

 

[Sonofsonof]

I'm guessing that VW508 is simply the 0W20 version of VW504. It will carry over all the basic building blocks of 504 but will (for the first time) allow 2.6 min HTHS. I suspect VW have upped their PV 1451 fuel economy test limits but these will simply mirror this viscosity drop.

Will a VW508 be a good oil? Yes.

Will VW508 be a ridiculously easy spec to meet? Absolutely not (nothing is ever easy with VW!).

Will the base oils, DI & VII be 'superior' (I use the term loosely because perception & reality aren't the same thing)? Yes.

Are VW doing this simply to meet fleet FE requirements? Partly maybe but I suspect this is also them facing up to the new competitive environment. Remember VW have doggedly stuck with 3.5 min HTHS leaving others free to secure genuine commercial advantage from deploying xW20 grades. VW may just be playing catch-up after decades of misplaced dithering.

Now the biggie... would I choose a VW508 0W20 over a GF-5/GF-6 0W20. My answer? Absolutely, categorically NO!

 

[tc1446]

Sonofsonof: What vehicle/s do you drive?

 

[Sonofsonof]

Sonofsonof: What vehicle/s do you drive?

You will laugh! I drive a tiny 1.0 litre n/a 3-pot Suzuki Celerio. To my eyes, it's mechanical engineering at its most optimum; lightweight, quiet, sufficiently practical, low cost & fast enough when necessary. Its stand out feature is its fuel economy. I once did 549 miles on a full tankful (32 litres/8.45 US gallons) of 95 RON unleaded which is simply amazing. I have had lots of cars & none of them were ever this good.

BTW, it's not a cost thing. I could go out tomorrow & easily blow a load of cash on a big new Beemer or Jag but to my eyes, it's lazy, over-indulgent, over-complicated engineering at it's worst. Apologies to petrol heads everywhere!

 

[edyvw]

You will laugh! I drive a tiny 1.0 litre n/a 3-pot Suzuki Celerio. To my eyes, it's mechanical engineering at its most optimum; lightweight, quiet, sufficiently practical, low cost & fast enough when necessary. Its stand out feature is its fuel economy. I once did 549 miles on a full tankful (32 litres/8.45 US gallons) of 95 RON unleaded which is simply amazing. I have had lots of cars & none of them were ever this good.

BTW, it's not a cost thing. I could go out tomorrow & easily blow a load of cash on a big new Beemer or Jag but to my eyes, it's lazy, over-indulgent, over-complicated engineering at it's worst. Apologies to petrol heads everywhere!

BMW makes 3cyl cars:

 

[Jetronic]

You will laugh! I drive a tiny 1.0 litre n/a 3-pot Suzuki Celerio. To my eyes, it's mechanical engineering at its most optimum; lightweight, quiet, sufficiently practical, low cost & fast enough when necessary. Its stand out feature is its fuel economy. I once did 549 miles on a full tankful (32 litres/8.45 US gallons) of 95 RON unleaded which is simply amazing. I have had lots of cars & none of them were ever this good.

BTW, it's not a cost thing. I could go out tomorrow & easily blow a load of cash on a big new Beemer or Jag but to my eyes, it's lazy, over-indulgent, over-complicated engineering at it's worst. Apologies to petrol heads everywhere!

did you get banned for owning a suzuki celerio or for admitting you do?

 

[tc1446]

You will laugh! I drive a tiny 1.0 litre n/a 3-pot Suzuki Celerio. To my eyes, it's mechanical engineering at its most optimum; lightweight, quiet, sufficiently practical, low cost & fast enough when necessary. Its stand out feature is its fuel economy. I once did 549 miles on a full tankful (32 litres/8.45 US gallons) of 95 RON unleaded which is simply amazing. I have had lots of cars & none of them were ever this good.

BTW, it's not a cost thing. I could go out tomorrow & easily blow a load of cash on a big new Beemer or Jag but to my eyes, it's lazy, over-indulgent, over-complicated engineering at it's worst. Apologies to petrol heads everywhere!

Not me...I don't laugh at anyone for what they drive. In fact, I wouldn't mind having something like yours, what with gas prices continuing to rise. My truck sucks it up at about 20mpg, Audi at 27mpg. cheers.

 

[wildcatgoal]

My 2019 Jetta gets changed using Liqui Moly Top Tech 6200 and a Hengst filter. Ends up costing as much as a dealer oil change!

I do not go to the dealer because god forbid I can get in and out of one those effing places in a reasonable period of time. I am not going to "make an appointment" for a bloody oil change and then wait there for 2 mother effing hours. No way. Peace out.

 

[kschachn]

My 2019 Jetta gets changed using Liqui Moly Top Tech 6200 and a Hengst filter. Ends up costing as much as a dealer oil change!

I do not go to the dealer because god forbid I can get in and out of one those effing places in a reasonable period of time. I am not going to "make an appointment" for a bloody oil change and then wait there for 2 mother effing hours. No way. Peace out.

Perhaps you should seek out a different "effing" dealership. Mine has a fast lane and they did a nice job on the Tiguan.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Perhaps you should seek out a different "effing" dealership. Mine has a fast lane and they did a nice job on the Tiguan.

 

[kschachn]

Just what I expected. You'd rather complain and utilize thinly veiled profanity than try something different?