Well guess what, your “real oil” isWell guess what, your “real oil” is the reason you needed VRP to begin with.
Well guess what, your “real oil” isWell guess what, your “real oil” is the reason you needed VRP to begin with.
They have not posted any alternative directions for "rapid cleaning" that I can find. My guess is that they want to keep it simple without giving too much away.Also, if there is any truth about VRP doing most of its cleaning at the beginning of the interval, and Valvoline knows this, wouldn’t it make sense for them to tell people to do four or more intervals at 3000 miles each?
Stop being reasonable ...Complete nonsense again. Please stop
These oils are not similar. One use’s AN’s the other an additive for cleaning. Neither are claiming to clean fuel deposits…..my low tension oil rings are not stuck due to fuel.
About what are you skeptical?Am I the only one scratching my head over this? The OP had undoubtedly used top shelf API SN or greater synthetic oils for 110k leading up to the VR&P test phase, 2 of which oils are renowned for their cleaning abilities (M1 and SS). The intervals used were shorter than factory recommendations and the vehicle appears to be routinely driven (15k~ per year). Yet despite all these ideal circumstances, it developed a 3 quart per OCI habit that only VR&P could fix? I’m somewhat skeptical to say the least.
I suspected in the beginning some would claim I made this all up. But luckily I’m not the only one that got good results using R&P!About what are you skeptical?
@Glenda W. I was going to post a question later about the difference between ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30, so since you brought it up ...Interesting, thanks. I’m not dealing with fuel dilution thankfully. The ESP 0w30 still uses the ester formula unlike the 5w30. It’s kept my daughter’s Acura RDX squeaky clean. Just did her oil change on Saturday at 126k miles.
I appreciate all the ideas being discussed from everyone! I don't think the tension stress is what wears a chain compared to the abrasion in the joints experienced during bending...so in that way, a chain is not like a rope. Whether a longer chain produces more total wear metals would be evidence to determine if this idea is true...my thought would be the wear per link is lower the longer the chain, although the wear per crank Revolution would be unchanged. This is because my assumption is that wear happens when the link bends where it connects to the adjacent link. Sliding of a chain on the non-metal soft guides wouldn't result in wear metals...of course, there is wear on the sliding surface, but these surfaces are not metal. As far as VVT making adjustments to changes in wear of a chain: the shorter the distance between the two gears that are "timed" to one another, the less of a difference it makes if the remainder of the chain is long. I guess there are three different timed elements though: Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing and the timing of each to the crank position. I can see how a long chain that is worn affects the Cam-to-crank timing, but Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing is relatively so short that it would take a lot of a wear problem to show up as Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing problems. Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and discussion points...makes me think of things I don't normally think about.Yes. Being in tension means every chain link carries the same stress. Using a longer rope doesn't lower the stress it carries or increase its strength.
Which means longer chain, all else being equal, will just generate more total wear metals because you have more sliding contact area under the same stress.
This is likely why API SP added the chain wear aspect. Older engines with stubby little chains got away with wear rates that new engines and their miles of chains cannot accept.
Hmm, maybe Honda wasn't so dumb after all to use dry belts replaced every 100k miles.....
All well and good, but I'd certainly like to hear from @zuluplus30 who expressed the skepticism.I suspected in the beginning some would claim I made this all up. But luckily I’m not the only one that got good results using R&P!
I’m not an expert but the evidence points to the 0w30 using a GTL/PAO/Ester formula and the 5W30 using a GTL/PAO/AN formula.@Glenda W. I was going to post a question later about the difference between ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30, so since you brought it up ...
I understand that the two grades use different formulas and technology. Can you describe or explain the differences between the two?
Is there a beneficial difference between the two, or are they pretty much equivalent? My understanding is that they would be about equal, but there are wide gaps in my knowledge.I’m not an expert but the evidence points to the 0w30 using a GTL/PAO/Ester formula and the 5W30 using a GTL/PAO/AN formula.
Honestly I’m not sure either. The ester formula was highly regarded by Dave at HPL. AN’s are also thought to be a less expensive option. I’m running the 0w30 in all my vehicles and the ones I maintain currently. I’m also in the middle of a varnish removal test in which I’ll be reporting on in the fall.Is there a beneficial difference between the two, or are they pretty much equivalent? My understanding is that they would be about equal, but there are wide gaps in my knowledge.
On the contrary, the tension is a primary contributor to chain wear. The tension is what makes the abrasion significant because it determines the oil film load.I appreciate all the ideas being discussed from everyone! I don't think the tension stress is what wears a chain compared to the abrasion in the joints experienced during bending...so in that way, a chain is not like a rope. Whether a longer chain produces more total wear metals would be evidence to determine if this idea is true...my thought would be the wear per link is lower the longer the chain, although the wear per crank Revolution would be unchanged. This is because my assumption is that wear happens when the link bends where it connects to the adjacent link. Sliding of a chain on the non-metal soft guides wouldn't result in wear metals...of course, there is wear on the sliding surface, but these surfaces are not metal. As far as VVT making adjustments to changes in wear of a chain: the shorter the distance between the two gears that are "timed" to one another, the less of a difference it makes if the remainder of the chain is long. I guess there are three different timed elements though: Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing and the timing of each to the crank position. I can see how a long chain that is worn affects the Cam-to-crank timing, but Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing is relatively so short that it would take a lot of a wear problem to show up as Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing problems. Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and discussion points...makes me think of things I don't normally think about.
Are you referring to reduced Ca compared to Full SAPS?The only concern I'd have with the ESP line is the lack of detergent.
Both Ca/Mg.Are you referring to reduced Ca compared to Full SAPS?
Sometimes you can go to Costco pumps around 6-7pm and there are no lines. If you are only around on weekends then good luck.If you mention that though the response is usually, “yeah, well if you go at 3AM or during a blizzard or thunderstorm or something then it’s much better.”
Oh cool. Thanks for the hot tip. I’ll get a Costco card right away.
Beautiful!On the contrary, the tension is a primary contributor to chain wear. The tension is what makes the abrasion significant because it determines the oil film load.
I’d suggest that this part exactly is consistent with your original idea. The smaller diameter gears mean more sliding/frictional contact of the chain. That accelerates wear. The only part of your theory that was incomplete was that tension matters and contributes strongly to the rate at which this “severity” causes wear.Unless point 2 regarding the cumulative degrees of rotation equates to the "severity" of the bend as it passes over a gear?
The teardowns were done with Valvoline EP and conventional oil. R&P wasn’t out yet when that test started. R&P will clean varnish so it’s safe to say it would have not varnished in that test. We’ve seen some varnished M1 pics here too so I would say it depends on the engine and conditions.
I didn’t notice any improvement until the 3rd oci so I recommend doing at least 4 with R&P.
Valvoline says it takes 4 OCIs to see the full benefit. Multiple people here have not seen a benefit until the 3rd or 4th OCI. If you're going to give it a real shot, I'd say do 4 OCIs.
Do you have a link to the Valvoline teardown video? Are you saying there was varnish on the synthetic oil eng
Everybody is trying to make up for something. Higher octane fuel if the knock sensors/carbon buildup to the fuel and timing are acting up or Liquimoly Oil Saver if its leaking to JB Weld, Gorilla Glue and Tape.VVT helps here. It will make up for this, to a certain point.
Wax your chain - I'm at 5000km on my chains and they are still goodBeautiful!
My practical experience is limited to wear on bicycle chains, which are much simpler than these in automotive use. The smaller the front and rear gears, the higher the wear rate of the chain (based upon miles ridden before the chain lengthens to it's service limit). And that's with the piddly power of human legs. I can get about 900 miles on my usual setup (which typically spends most of the time in medium-sized front and rear gears) and only about 750 miles on my "small-small" setup...all while riding the same trails at the same average power output. Seems my original idea doesn't cross over to automotive use in an engine. Unless point 2 regarding the cumulative degrees of rotation equates to the "severity" of the bend as it passes over a gear?
Thanks for taking the time to show this!