Well guess what, your “real oil” is
Valvoline R&P Oil Burner Test Results
- Thread starter Glenda W.
- Start date
They have not posted any alternative directions for "rapid cleaning" that I can find. My guess is that they want to keep it simple without giving too much away.
Use as directed. Cleaning ensues.
Stop being reasonable ...
About what are you skeptical?
I suspected in the beginning some would claim I made this all up. But luckily I’m not the only one that got good results using R&P!
@Glenda W. I was going to post a question later about the difference between ESP 0W-30 and 5W-30, so since you brought it up ...
I understand that the two grades use different formulas and technology. Can you describe or explain the differences between the two?
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I appreciate all the ideas being discussed from everyone! I don't think the tension stress is what wears a chain compared to the abrasion in the joints experienced during bending...so in that way, a chain is not like a rope. Whether a longer chain produces more total wear metals would be evidence to determine if this idea is true...my thought would be the wear per link is lower the longer the chain, although the wear per crank Revolution would be unchanged. This is because my assumption is that wear happens when the link bends where it connects to the adjacent link. Sliding of a chain on the non-metal soft guides wouldn't result in wear metals...of course, there is wear on the sliding surface, but these surfaces are not metal. As far as VVT making adjustments to changes in wear of a chain: the shorter the distance between the two gears that are "timed" to one another, the less of a difference it makes if the remainder of the chain is long. I guess there are three different timed elements though: Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing and the timing of each to the crank position. I can see how a long chain that is worn affects the Cam-to-crank timing, but Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing is relatively so short that it would take a lot of a wear problem to show up as Intake-to-Exhaust cam timing problems. Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and discussion points...makes me think of things I don't normally think about.
All well and good, but I'd certainly like to hear from @zuluplus30 who expressed the skepticism.
I’m not an expert but the evidence points to the 0w30 using a GTL/PAO/Ester formula and the 5W30 using a GTL/PAO/AN formula.
Is there a beneficial difference between the two, or are they pretty much equivalent? My understanding is that they would be about equal, but there are wide gaps in my knowledge.
Honestly I’m not sure either. The ester formula was highly regarded by Dave at HPL. AN’s are also thought to be a less expensive option. I’m running the 0w30 in all my vehicles and the ones I maintain currently. I’m also in the middle of a varnish removal test in which I’ll be reporting on in the fall.
On the contrary, the tension is a primary contributor to chain wear. The tension is what makes the abrasion significant because it determines the oil film load.
Let's take a deeper dive into the parts of a roller chain:
As you can see, the rolling element actually riding on the sprockets has mostly hydrodynamic loading on the bushings. So both the bushings and the outer roller have very low wear rates, especially since the chain tensile force is distributed across the wide surface area of the bushing/roller interface.
The Bushing interfaces with the inside side plates in a press fit that has no relative motion. No relative motion means no wear on the outside of the bushing at the end plate.
Which leaves the pins and outside side plates. The pins or rivets wear at the end points of contact-- either where they rotate within the outer side plates (in designs where that movement is allowed) or one step removed from that-- where the bushings rotate on the pins.
The pressing of the bushing into the inner link cause the diameter of the bushings to be smaller at the inside side plate. And the tensile forces tend to bend the pin into an arch shape and you end up with point contact where the pins ride on the ends of the bushing at the inside plates. As a result, this is the primary point of chain wear. Chains don't "stretch"-- rather, they get longer because of the cumulative increase in clearance between pins and bushings.
Pin and bushing wear is the location of the overwhelming majority of all chain wear. This is strongly a function of the 1) tension on the chain and 2) cumulative degrees of rotation.
If you contrived a unit such as "kPa-radians" to capture the product of stress (tension divided by contact area) and angular rotation, you'd find the observed chain wear to be highly correlated to this contrived unit.
Are you referring to reduced Ca compared to Full SAPS?
Both Ca/Mg.
Sometimes you can go to Costco pumps around 6-7pm and there are no lines. If you are only around on weekends then good luck.
Beautiful!
My practical experience is limited to wear on bicycle chains, which are much simpler than these in automotive use. The smaller the front and rear gears, the higher the wear rate of the chain (based upon miles ridden before the chain lengthens to it's service limit). And that's with the piddly power of human legs. I can get about 900 miles on my usual setup (which typically spends most of the time in medium-sized front and rear gears) and only about 750 miles on my "small-small" setup...all while riding the same trails at the same average power output. Seems my original idea doesn't cross over to automotive use in an engine. Unless point 2 regarding the cumulative degrees of rotation equates to the "severity" of the bend as it passes over a gear?
Thanks for taking the time to show this!
I’d suggest that this part exactly is consistent with your original idea. The smaller diameter gears mean more sliding/frictional contact of the chain. That accelerates wear. The only part of your theory that was incomplete was that tension matters and contributes strongly to the rate at which this “severity” causes wear.
It’s not just tension and it’s not just the amount of rotation— it’s the combination of the two. If you dropped the tension low enough, you could rotate the links on a tiny, tiny gear and never really see any wear. Conversely, if you no changes if direction with really high tension, you’d have no relative sliding frictional contact— and thus, no wear in this scenario *also*.
It’s not just one or the other. Without one, the other doesn’t matter. Timing chains are fairly high tension so I’d think the length of them and the total amount of pin-on-bushing sliding is more.
Also Glenda while I do agree they were not using VRP, I truly don't see their base oils or add pack being much different in VRP vs their other synthetics in my view. This may be controversial but there is no reason for me to believe at Longer OCIs (which I do not do) VRP could also leave a little varnish behind. Of course this is me speaking with no evidence of this. Just my own humble opinion lol.
As for M1 "vanilla" I will be the first to tell you I have been disappointed with what I see as vapor varnish in my valve cover. So I do agree there also.
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Everybody is trying to make up for something. Higher octane fuel if the knock sensors/carbon buildup to the fuel and timing are acting up or Liquimoly Oil Saver if its leaking to JB Weld, Gorilla Glue and Tape.
Wax your chain - I'm at 5000km on my chains and they are still good
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