New Mobil oil....M1 Annual Protection?

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not sure. But, I do know that M1 EP succeeded up here with the mileage warranty. Gold bottle Edge failed at first. When the mileage warranty came out, it got back on the shelves and started selling. It might help PUP.

Heck, even RP has a mileage guarantee. Some oil companies are willing to help customers feel more comfortable with extending OCIs. Valvoline and Pennzoil-Quaker State are missing the boat on that.

As I've pointed out before, when you've got a basic 5w-30 SN/GF-5 type application with a conservative OCI, what incentive is there for a buyer to plunk down a few extra dollars for Pennzoil Ultra Platinum over Pennzoil Platinum? At least gold bottle Edge, M1 EP, and even M1 AP can say something over black bottle Edge and M1 beyond "extra cleaning."

If I were to follow my G37's OEM intervals of 3750 miles, how much cleaner could things possibly be using PUP over PP?

Certainly, there's something to be said about the demographic changing, but that can be slow. In the end, the oils are changing with specification and OEM demands. Some oil companies have been saying that you don't need a Mercedes to have 10,000 mile OCIs, or now, even an ordinary brand new vehicle to go 10,000 mile OCIs - we have a product that can do it and has been doing it for years.


You've just highlighted an issue I guess I should have mentioned. I just checked and even a brand new Nissan Maxima's OEM OCI is still 3750 miles. Most people won't go over their recommended OCI as scheduled per their maintenance book. This goes against what Mobil is doing, which is why it would seem that even if Pennzoil is falling behind in their warranty per mileage, they don't have any incentive to update it like other oil companies if the manufacturers themselves aren't yet recommending longer OCI's. This is why there is still incentive for people to buy conventional oil. Why pay for an oil that says it can go 10k+ if your vehicle's OCI as determined by the manual says to change at 3750 miles?

The manufacturers are to blame for people not yet running longer OCI's. About the only incentive a person is going to see in buying synthetic oil when their OCI's are set short is it if posits better mpg and better cleaning. Pennzoil has many claims that their oil cleans better, so when a person whose vehicle's OCI is 3750 miles is looking between oils for the best bang for their buck, setting aside their best option of conventional and assuming they still want synthetic, they'll want to choose something that makes sense for them. An oil claiming longer OCI's vs and oil claiming to clean the best? What will they choose? If they change their oil at the rec'd 3750, they'll choose the one that posits better cleaning.

Only in vehicles where the manuals say to use synthetic oil and use longer OCI's will the buyer look at oil positing a longer OCI.

I certainly see your point against Valvoline and Pennzoil vs Mobil, but I'm just saying, the oil companies don't always have to compete in the same type of game.
Not sure where you looked it up, but here's a screenshot of an owner's manual for a 2017 Nissan Maxima. 5k mile OCI. Which is still pretty short

 

[SilverFusion2010]

I think it's a solution in search of a problem. If you stick with warranty oci for the first 100k then this oil is overkill for the first 100k. By the time an engine racks up 100k mi it often consumes some oil. 20k mi in an engine that burns a quart every 5k we'll say. So that 3qt at $8 a quart, hmm $24. A couple more bucks and I could buy a 5qt jug of EP instead. And a couple of filters with the money I saved by buying ESP the first time.

It may be a very good oil, but it's still mostly marketing

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
You've just highlighted an issue I guess I should have mentioned. I just checked and even a brand new Nissan Maxima's OEM OCI is still 3750 miles. Most people won't go over their recommended OCI as scheduled per their maintenance book. This goes against what Mobil is doing, which is why it would seem that even if Pennzoil is falling behind in their warranty per mileage, they don't have any incentive to update it like other oil companies if the manufacturers themselves aren't yet recommending longer OCI's. This is why there is still incentive for people to buy conventional oil. Why pay for an oil that says it can go 10k+ if your vehicle's OCI as determined by the manual says to change at 3750 miles?

Yes, that's the elephant in the room. Nissan/Infiniti is slowly improving in this regard, but there are stragglers there. Mobil will stand behind their product in my engine for 10,000 miles and 15,000 miles, respectively, for M1 and M1 EP (slightly different up here, they use a metric conversion that isn't ideal, but close enough). Castrol will do the same. If I were to make a claim under the Pennzoil warranty, and I were under severe service, I'd have to be able to document oil changes ever 3750 miles or sooner/3 months or sooner, regardless of it being PYB or PUP.

Now, someone might be able to make an argument that I should be running PP instead of PYB. Okay, maybe, maybe not, but you would be making a point about using a premium product. But, what benefit is realized over a 3750 mile OCI by spending extra on PUP over PP?

And yes, much of this will come out in the wash as OEM OCIs extend. 10,000 mile OEM OCIs aren't that rare these days. I have no doubt PP and PUP are more than up for the task. It's a marketing decision, not a technical one, as far as I can see. However, maybe that's Mobil's plan with Annual Protection? If most vehicles coming off the lot already have 10,000 mile OCIs, what should Mobil do to market extended drains further? This may be the answer, pricing considerations aside.

Of course, we BITOGers know what we can do to extend OCIs beyond just worrying about marketing. There are very capable oils on the market already, including various HDEOs, A3/B4 oils, and the known long drain favourites. But, there is the uneducated public. How many will wonder if 10,000 miles M1 is really "good enough" for their 10,000 mile OEM OCI, or if they're pushing the limits (they're probably not, but they don't know that). Maybe Pennzoil does have a fine marketing strategy in the end.

I'd still slap a high mileage warranty on PUP, though, leave well enough alone on PP, if anyone were to ask me, and they're not. That way, they'd have the best of both worlds; the PP will meet all OEM requirements and OEM OCIs, with the PUP having a high mileage guarantee similar to Castrol gold bottle and M1 EP.

Heck, if I remember correctly, the black bottle Edge doesn't even have the 10,000 mile warranty, just the gold bottle has the 15,000 mile one.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Ah yes, gotta love people that can't be bothered to put stuff back where they found it. Classy folks. Like the ones that return a 5qt jug full of USED oil.

It's ridiculous. I've railed about the regular retail pricing up here before, but the shelf organization is a big problem here. If something's on rollback at our Walmarts, it'll be on the shelf end or a big pallet. So, if you go the actual oil aisle, it looks like a bull riding competition were held there, and the prices are through the roof anyhow - great purchase incentives. There's nothing I want more than to pay $55 for a jug of synthetic that's laying on its side five feet from where it belongs.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Also we should not forget that XOM is free to reformulate the product to meet their profit objectives once the market level price is found. Has anyone else noticed that the specifications for these oils remain incomplete? Are any of you so naive to think that this is not intentional?

Intentional - difficult to say - done fully aware - yes. The B5 portion of A5/B5 has been problematic for most oil companies here, not just Mobil, so a lack of A5/B5 wouldn't be a surprise. A1/B1 is obsolete. The dexos1 specification has the next generation coming out, so Mobil's first priority is to get its main line properly formulated, approved, and on the shelves. A $50 jug of dexos1 M1 AP won't be helpful if that's Mobil's only competition to a $25 jug of dexos1 Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[PimTac]

"A $50 jug of dexos1 M1 AP won't be helpful if that's Mobil's only competition to a $25 jug of dexos1 Pennzoil Platinum."


Especially if the two are stocked next to each other. It doesn't even have to be Pennzoil Platinum. Any brand will have the same effect as consumers see this $50 jug of oil alongside of jugs half that price.