That’s not true. No mental gymnastics required. Valvoline Restore and Protect has completely cleaned up Subaru engines and resolved oil burning for people here.
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Bought early October … In Pentastar now …
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So looks like some are seeking clarification - what did you run for 80k - with what observations ?
No, it looks like is the current one. It's on all Valvoline Extended Protection High Mileage too:
https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/extended-protection-full-synthetic-high-mileage-sae-5w-30/
However, on the High Mileage is only on the 0W-20 grade, all other High Mileage grades have different back label (per Valvoline website):
https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/full-synthetic-high-mileage-max-life-motor-oil-0w-20/
https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/extended-protection-full-synthetic-high-mileage-sae-5w-30/
However, on the High Mileage is only on the 0W-20 grade, all other High Mileage grades have different back label (per Valvoline website):
https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en/full-synthetic-high-mileage-max-life-motor-oil-0w-20/
I don't think they are many people on here that drive 5,000 miles with conventional or synth. blend oils that would make their engines to accumulate sludge and varnish.
However, there are many people on here who drive used cars and those cars were not maintained properly. And that might not be a fault of the previous owner, but simply because he was changing mediocre oil at 10,000 or running low viscosity oil as per dealership/manufacturer requirements.
Another issue is that many people drive some miles past 5,000 with oils labeled "full synthetic" when in reality those are group III oils, not capable of going over 5,000 miles. So, driving with a good oil but lower viscosity or too long it will eventually coke and cause sludge and varnish.
So, all those cases will create sludge and varnish in an engine. Even, if just once you changed your oil at 6,000 or 7,000 miles with Walmart oil. Or you had misfiring just once and that diluted your oil way more than normal would cause sludge and varnish issues. People may do regular oil changes with decent oil, but only once overdue oil (for a 1,000 or more miles) or other engine condition may create sludge and varnish conditions that are very hard to reverse.
I leased an 18 rogue back in 18 and the lease ran out during Covid. The buyout was $15k and given used car prices I was crazy not to purchase it. I stumbled into meijer store right before the 1st oil change and they had maxlife synthetic for $1.98 a quart, I bought all they had. That got me to 80k. Like a dummy I stripped the pcv valve and switched out the valve cover at 75k. The engine looked like it had rolled off the assembly line. I used Mobil 1 for 5k, then Royal purple Hps for a couple, schaeffers for a couple and now hpl, all 0-20. I’ve got 6k on the hpl which is the longest I’ve ran any oil in this engine. I’ll change it when I catch a warm spot in the weather. I’m sure I can run this oil for twice that but have no desire to try to.
Marketing images are soaked in deception. The Valvoline Restore and Protect marketing images show the cleaning of wet sludge, not dry sludge. Those pistons didn't endure a couple thousand cold starts across a dozen icy North Dakota winters or idle in traffic in the scorching Arizona summers. Every factor behind those piston images was carefully controlled with a formula designed to produce a dirty piston very quickly and Valvoline Restore and Protect to clean it right afterward.
Now, I'm not saying the images are false. I'm also not saying Valvoline Restore and Protect can't remove hardened coking because it certainly can as some results have shown. I'm simply saying that a Brand's marketing carries no weight with me whatsoever. Every brand is going to make their product out to be the most amazing thing ever bestowed upon this planet because that's how marketing works. It's a multi-billion dollar industry for a reason. They play a game of psychological warfare by exploiting people's gullibility, ignorance, and vulnerability to convince them to buy a product. It's a bit of a cat and mouse game with the truth, stretching and twisting things enough to get your attention while also keeping claims vague enough to not draw the FTC's attention. Any CYAs end up in the fine print that next to nobody ever reads.
I'm not being critical of Valvoline Restore and Protect, again making that clear. I'm being critical of marketing. Those piston pictures mean zilch to me.
Now, I'm not saying the images are false. I'm also not saying Valvoline Restore and Protect can't remove hardened coking because it certainly can as some results have shown. I'm simply saying that a Brand's marketing carries no weight with me whatsoever. Every brand is going to make their product out to be the most amazing thing ever bestowed upon this planet because that's how marketing works. It's a multi-billion dollar industry for a reason. They play a game of psychological warfare by exploiting people's gullibility, ignorance, and vulnerability to convince them to buy a product. It's a bit of a cat and mouse game with the truth, stretching and twisting things enough to get your attention while also keeping claims vague enough to not draw the FTC's attention. Any CYAs end up in the fine print that next to nobody ever reads.
I'm not being critical of Valvoline Restore and Protect, again making that clear. I'm being critical of marketing. Those piston pictures mean zilch to me.
You haven’t seen any piston photos though from disassembled Valvoline Restore and Protect/Subaru trials. That’s all I’m saying. There’s no way that a piston needs to be 100% spotless to stop oil burning, and there’s no proof that on the ones that did stop using oil that their pistons are 100% spotless.
When Valvoline Restore and Protect was first announced and I read the wording (breakthrough, best oil they ever made since they invented it, revolutionary etc.) I was skeptical. But they really did their homework and have all the data to back it up as Dr. England has said when LSJ visited their lab.
Had LSJ not gone there, I'd still believe in the product, but the lab visits really showed how thorough these guys are.
Not only do they have all the lab/engine data, but it's also proven itself in engines through the reduction of oil consumption and hundreds of thousands of miles in actual engines.
“Exceeds” is the key word. Warholic was quick to point out that these types of tests are merely the baseline within the oil market, not the high bar that oil manufacturers should seek to leap over.
"Real-world testing is crucial. For instance, a Ford Mustang was subjected to extensive testing with Restore and Protect, showing significant reductions in wear and deposit formation. The testing extended to various engine components, including the timing chain cover, oil pan, and valvetrain, demonstrating the comprehensive benefits of the oil. The team also ran Restore and Protect in a Ford Explorer with more than 500,000 miles."
“And we also did a chassis dynamometer test where we put a vehicle on rollers basically and ran it 300,000 miles,” Warholic says. “Restore and Protect actually cleaned up the entire engine.”
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2024/06/dealing-with-deposits-to-boost-engine-life/
Had LSJ not gone there, I'd still believe in the product, but the lab visits really showed how thorough these guys are.
Not only do they have all the lab/engine data, but it's also proven itself in engines through the reduction of oil consumption and hundreds of thousands of miles in actual engines.
“Exceeds” is the key word. Warholic was quick to point out that these types of tests are merely the baseline within the oil market, not the high bar that oil manufacturers should seek to leap over.
"Real-world testing is crucial. For instance, a Ford Mustang was subjected to extensive testing with Restore and Protect, showing significant reductions in wear and deposit formation. The testing extended to various engine components, including the timing chain cover, oil pan, and valvetrain, demonstrating the comprehensive benefits of the oil. The team also ran Restore and Protect in a Ford Explorer with more than 500,000 miles."
“And we also did a chassis dynamometer test where we put a vehicle on rollers basically and ran it 300,000 miles,” Warholic says. “Restore and Protect actually cleaned up the entire engine.”
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2024/06/dealing-with-deposits-to-boost-engine-life/
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I still think it's a winner from Valvoline, at a great price point. Regarding piston cleanliness, they'll never be perfect! They live in a very hostile environment, any oil that can clean them up and keep them clean is beneficial, especially in DI engines.
On BITOG it all depends on WHO produces the marketing material. If you are a fan, doesn't seem to matter if from your winner.
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We don't know what Valvoline Restore and Protect can do to this particular engine in 4K. Valvoline Restore and Protect does not claim to be able to take an engine back to a completely deposit free state in 4K, it says it can get an engine back to UP TO 100% clean based on an adapted version of Sequence IIIH in 4 or more consecutive oil changes:
"Up to" accounts for conditions that may produce deposits that require a ring land scraper to remove, as mentioned later in this thread. "Or more" accounts for conditions that require more than four changes where cleaning is still possible and taking place.
The deposits that plug up the oil control rings and stick the piston rings are generally a carbon-filled lacquer that's quite "sticky" but can be broken down by a high solvency or polar compound (like AN's and certain esters). Of course, as Tom NJ noted, esters can't break-down elemental carbon, so if you've got what amounts to straight carbon baked on there, that's not coming off.
Since HPL's blending approach would dictate that it functions more like a less intense version of VPBR than Valvoline Restore and Protect, I'm not sure these products can be easily "bench raced". We have some excellent controlled test results from Valvoline for Valvoline Restore and Protect, we have nothing similar from HPL and this thread isn't a proxy.
Indeed, these types of coatings are the most effective I've seen yet. I'm using Surface Shield.
Late to the party, but here's my take:
-- Not all surfaces of a piston are equal in terms of the utility and importance of cleanliness. The HPL pistons are showing amazing cleanliness on the top land and in the areas of the piston that are arguably the most important parts of the entire engine for cleanliness.
-- The presence of carbon particles in the oil filter strongly suggest that the HPL is *still* cleaning the pistons in this engine. It's probably taking longer because of the factors @SubieRubyRoo mentions about boxers. If this thing was previously pretty dirty, HPL could still be cleaning after 50k. The filter contents suggest that. While you can't dissolve elemental hard carbon. But it might be possible to disrupt its adhesion that's chemically a different thing.
-- Valvoline Restore and Protect photos are marketing, and by themselves I'd be skeptical. But my own firsthand evidence--experiencing both Valvoline Restore and Protect's incredible cleaning ability in my van as well as the remarkable wear protection in my turbo Accord, I'm a firm believer that Valvoline Restore and Protect cleans amazingly well while ALSO protecting the engine very well.
IMO: Valvoline Restore and Protect sets the bar for performance in a cost effective API-spec formula. HPL is for everything else where Valvoline Restore and Protect isn't suitable (extended drains, higher viscosity, different additive packs, track use, etc).
If you need a 0w-20 or 5w-30 for 5k OCIs an an API SQ oil, the it's Valvoline Restore and Protect 100% all day for me. But I prefer HPL for everything else.
Now, if Valvoline starts putting the magic cleaning stuff in a 0w-40 Euro oil that meets A40 and 229.5, I will have quite the dilemma. Heck even just a Valvoline Restore and Protect grade with HTHS over 3.5, I'll be in a pickle.
-- Not all surfaces of a piston are equal in terms of the utility and importance of cleanliness. The HPL pistons are showing amazing cleanliness on the top land and in the areas of the piston that are arguably the most important parts of the entire engine for cleanliness.
-- The presence of carbon particles in the oil filter strongly suggest that the HPL is *still* cleaning the pistons in this engine. It's probably taking longer because of the factors @SubieRubyRoo mentions about boxers. If this thing was previously pretty dirty, HPL could still be cleaning after 50k. The filter contents suggest that. While you can't dissolve elemental hard carbon. But it might be possible to disrupt its adhesion that's chemically a different thing.
-- Valvoline Restore and Protect photos are marketing, and by themselves I'd be skeptical. But my own firsthand evidence--experiencing both Valvoline Restore and Protect's incredible cleaning ability in my van as well as the remarkable wear protection in my turbo Accord, I'm a firm believer that Valvoline Restore and Protect cleans amazingly well while ALSO protecting the engine very well.
IMO: Valvoline Restore and Protect sets the bar for performance in a cost effective API-spec formula. HPL is for everything else where Valvoline Restore and Protect isn't suitable (extended drains, higher viscosity, different additive packs, track use, etc).
If you need a 0w-20 or 5w-30 for 5k OCIs an an API SQ oil, the it's Valvoline Restore and Protect 100% all day for me. But I prefer HPL for everything else.
Now, if Valvoline starts putting the magic cleaning stuff in a 0w-40 Euro oil that meets A40 and 229.5, I will have quite the dilemma. Heck even just a Valvoline Restore and Protect grade with HTHS over 3.5, I'll be in a pickle.
There are threads where people who used Valvoline Restore and Protect on Subarus have torn the engines down and taken pics of the pistons? If not, you can’t claim it “completely cleaned up” those engines, just that it reduced/eliminated the oil burning, which almost certainly does not require spotless pistons to do so.
Yes that's true. No piston photos I'm aware of. Just elimination of oil burning.
Quite happy with surface shield as well. Next coat on this subaru will be surface shield
I have to keep it real. I'm standing with Valvoline on this one with their claim that it's the first and only motor oil that restores pistons to factory clean, until proven otherwise.
I'm just not ready to say HPL has cleaning ability to clean pistons that well. To a limited extent sure. HPL is great in other areas no doubt.
I stand on the side with thorough lab and field testing in actual engines via lab/field and tests designed to measure deposits (IIIH).
HPL hasn't cleaned these pistons enough over 50k miles for my liking. Is it bad, NO. The two rings look clean. The piston skirts are still heavily carboned up. Sure we don't know the before photos, but this is AFTER 50k miles. That's 5 years worth of driving and still a lot of carbon.
Notice the piston skirt of the Amsoil piston after a double length IIIH. It's clean. HPL one is not.
Same with Valvoline Restore and Protect. 1 OCI.
I'm just not ready to say HPL has cleaning ability to clean pistons that well. To a limited extent sure. HPL is great in other areas no doubt.
I stand on the side with thorough lab and field testing in actual engines via lab/field and tests designed to measure deposits (IIIH).
HPL hasn't cleaned these pistons enough over 50k miles for my liking. Is it bad, NO. The two rings look clean. The piston skirts are still heavily carboned up. Sure we don't know the before photos, but this is AFTER 50k miles. That's 5 years worth of driving and still a lot of carbon.
Notice the piston skirt of the Amsoil piston after a double length IIIH. It's clean. HPL one is not.
Same with Valvoline Restore and Protect. 1 OCI.
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