HPL Ester based cleaning versus solvent based engine flush.

[dumkid]

maybe... the sludge in filters that were used with hpl... is from the hpl turning into sludge... instead of being previous deposits in the engine that were cleaned up

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

maybe... the sludge in filters that were used with hpl... is from the hpl turning into sludge... instead of being previous deposits in the engine that were cleaned up

Your name says it all.

 

[Astro14]

maybe... the sludge in filters that were used with hpl... is from the hpl turning into sludge... instead of being previous deposits in the engine that were cleaned up

And, maybe… the Earth is flat.

We don’t moderate ignorance, or there would be fewer members, however, bashing a company out of that same ignorance is not acceptable behavior.

@dumkid - You’re not covering new ground, and you’re not adding anything of value. So, please read through this thread.

So what is the deal with HPL Oil?

As the title says... what is the deal with HPL oil? I am seeing it heavily talked about on the forum but nowhere else. What's special about it? How do you buy it?

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[nicholas]

I think you know my take but here it is. I don't believe the LM engine flush product is so harsh that things are de-sludging and clogging up anything. In fact, to those using the HPL products....they are litterally posting pics of actual bits of crud in their filters so not sure why folks think the HPL is so different w/r to things clogging up screens etc. I've used the LM flush product in multiple vehicles/multiple times without issue as have a bazillion VW/Audi/BMW owners that are bombarded by LM's social media marketing of this product. Heck I've dumped a can of Sea Foam in my W8 Passat to unstick a bad cam adjuster and it...worked.

I vote for using a can of the LM engine flush next time you change the oil. Change it with whatever you like and add the HPL EC to that fill. Run it out per their instructions...I think it's ~2K miles? LM engine flush again. Drain. Fill with HPL oil and give that a go as it's been shown to do some cleaning. This should really help out getting thing started w/r to cleaning it out.

I also vote for the LM flush. Based on my usage as well in numerous vehicles.

 

[Bill7]

I also vote for the LM flush. Based on my usage as well in numerous vehicles.

Has anyone ever used Motor Medic by Gunk - Less than $5 for a quart on Walmart. You only run with it in your engine for 5 minutes and then do an oil change. The Motor Medic seems super strong, but perhaps too strong. I saw some Amazon reviews where the poster changed his oil so brand new oil in the sump. Then added 1 quart Motor Medic and ran for 5 minutes as per the instructions, and the new oil turned so jet black and it spilled onto the guys driveway and made a forever stain. Motor Medic might be significantly stronger than LiquiMoly.

 

[TiGeo]

Has anyone ever used Motor Medic by Gunk - Less than $5 for a quart on Walmart. You only run with it in your engine for 5 minutes and then do an oil change. The Motor Medic seems super strong, but perhaps too strong. I saw some Amazon reviews where the poster changed his oil so brand new oil in the sump. Then added 1 quart Motor Medic and ran for 5 minutes as per the instructions, and the new oil turned so jet black and it spilled onto the guys driveway and made a forever stain. Motor Medic might be significantly stronger than LiquiMoly.

Keep in mind that even just changing your oil running it 5 min then draining it will also yield dark oil.

 

[Greasymechtech]

There are other cleaning methods.

#3... more frequent oil/filter changes
#4... long term lower dose solvent products... Rislone/MMO... too bad LC20 disappeared(pushed hard years ago)
#5... pushed here hard years ago... AutoRx
#6... BG MOA, STP Gold bottle, Lubegard Biotech
#7... Solvent free flushes

There is no best method and no point in harping one product until it falls out of popularity.

Slow cleaning from products found at local walmart and autopart stores. Got it spotless and dropped oil consumption to 'nil.

 

[userfriendly]

There are other cleaning methods.

#3... more frequent oil/filter changes
#4... long term lower dose solvent products... Rislone/MMO... too bad LC20 disappeared(pushed hard years ago)
#5... pushed here hard years ago... AutoRx
#6... BG MOA, STP Gold bottle, Lubegard Biotech
#7... Solvent free flushes

There is no best method and no point in harping one product until it falls out of popularity.

Slow cleaning from products found at local walmart and autopart stores. Got it spotless and dropped oil consumption to 'nil.

View attachment 156590

A good hard run on the highway on a hot day with a group I, SAE 40, like Delo 400 works for me.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I used to like Mobil1, but I remember reading countless BITOG posts years ago about a trend of consistently high Iron wear metals in the UOA's compared with other oil brands. Not sure if you had noticed those posts from a while ago. I think even the Mobil Super suffered from same issue. I know UOA's have a margin of error as expressed in the Standard Deviation, so anything within that margin of error needs to be considered equal, but still it was a troubling Mobil oil trend of higher iron wear across all car makes/models so was just wondering if that is still a concern.

I remember that but the uptick was negligible and probably a result of chelation due to the ester content. It was silly to read someone saying M1 causes more wear because iron went from 7 to 12.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yes, I saw that on Mobil's website too. Mobil is really making a bold statement there. Some BITOG members have been getting significant deposit's of sludge in their oil filters even after running HPL Ester based oil cleaning for 26k+ miles. For Mobil 1 to say 1 oil change will remove all sludge is hard to believe.

High mileage oils will typically contain a higher dose of AN or Ester which will temporarily cause seals to swell and stop oil leaks. As you are already aware Esters/AN play a significant role in HPL EC. As for Mobil 1 sludge claim you have to be careful. Here's what it actually says., "Help remove sludge in just one oil change".

It doesn't say their product removes ALL sludge in one oil change.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have posted a picture before that shows the Mobil HM oils provide cleaning as well, the jug stated "cleans virtually all sludge in one oil change."

The sludge claim is on the EP oils and probably all of them that aren't the 0W-40 (I haven't bothered checking to see if any of the other Euro oils have the same claim as the 0W-40). Sludge doesn't require anything special to clean-up, since it's not adhered, while varnish/lacquer requires something polar or with high solvency.

The FS 0W-40 just states that it has exceptional cleaning power, which, while we are indeed talking about marketing language from XOM, differs from the language they use on other products, which specifically only mention sludge.

 

[Astro14]

Has anyone ever used Motor Medic by Gunk - Less than $5 for a quart on Walmart. You only run with it in your engine for 5 minutes and then do an oil change. The Motor Medic seems super strong, but perhaps too strong. I saw some Amazon reviews where the poster changed his oil so brand new oil in the sump. Then added 1 quart Motor Medic and ran for 5 minutes as per the instructions, and the new oil turned so jet black and it spilled onto the guys driveway and made a forever stain. Motor Medic might be significantly stronger than LiquiMoly.

I suspect that it’s kerosene, or some similar solvent. Which is why you idle (not really run) the engine for 5 minutes. It wouldn’t be my first choice for a car I cared about.

 

[Shel_B]

A good hard run on the highway on a hot day with a group I, SAE 40, like Delo 400 works for me.

What does it do? How do you know such treatment is helpful in cleaning your engine? Did you examine the internals before and after a run? Why a 40-weight?

Such a strong, direct statement begs for clarification.

 

[userfriendly]

What does it do? How do you know such treatment is helpful in cleaning your engine? Did you examine the internals before and after a run? Why a 40-weight?

Such a strong, direct statement begs for clarification.

All I stated is that it worked for me. If that is a strong & direct statement, so be it.
I'd rather it be accepted as an opinion based on an experiment.
And no, I didn't tear down the engine before and after.
Just observed the color change of the SAE 40 (Duron) in a short time period, and how the engine ran before, during and after.
During the SAE 40 test, the engines ran very hot for the first few hours. Something was obviously going on.
Why SAE 40? Because that's what worked. For me, that is.
Perhaps it's at the molecular level, but only your hairdresser knows for sure.

 

[TiGeo]

 

[Shel_B]

All I stated is that it worked for me. If that is a strong & direct statement, so be it.
I'd rather it be accepted as an opinion based on an experiment.
And no, I didn't tear down the engine before and after.
Just observed the color change of the SAE 40 (Duron) in a short time period, and how the engine ran before, during and after.
During the SAE 40 test, the engines ran very hot for the first few hours. Something was obviously going on.
Why SAE 40? Because that's what worked. For me, that is.
Perhaps it's at the molecular level, but only your hairdresser knows for sure.

Essentially, what I asked was how you knew it worked. Your response suggests you don't know if it cleaned anything.

A teardown would not be needed. There are other ways to see if there were any benefits.

In what way did the engine's running characteristics change from before to during and after, and how might that indicate that cleaning had been done?

I'm just curious as to how you've arrived at your conclusions and, knowing that might your experience be helpful to others.

 

[bhvrdr]

The sludge claim is on the EP oils and probably all of them that aren't the 0W-40 (I haven't bothered checking to see if any of the other Euro oils have the same claim as the 0W-40). Sludge doesn't require anything special to clean-up, since it's not adhered, while varnish/lacquer requires something polar or with high solvency.

The FS 0W-40 just states that it has exceptional cleaning power, which, while we are indeed talking about marketing language from XOM, differs from the language they use on other products, which specifically only mention sludge.

Actually the EP also states...

Utilizes Mobil 1's Triple Action+ Formula to combine outstanding engine performance, protection, and cleanliness with the added benefit of power.


I'm not sure if outstanding is better or worse than exceptional. Marketing.

 

[The Critic]

Moral of the story: if all of these products worked EVERY time in EVERY situation, OEM's would not be paying $5K (or more) to replace short blocks or re-ring them under warranty when there is an issue with excessive oil consumption.

Your results may vary.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I remember that but the uptick was negligible and probably a result of chelation due to the ester content. It was silly to read someone saying M1 causes more wear because iron went from 7 to 12.

Yes, the High Iron "as a result of using Mobil 1" threads were plentiful at one time. I do remember a few reasons postulated as why that was.. all completely normal.

Should be noted that I haven't seen a thread like that in years, oils are API SP now and the Mobil 1 formulation appears to have changed... talk of which manufacturer (blender?) is more "transparent" with their information.

Conversation has shifted back to outstanding vs. Exceptional, "meets or exceeds" vs recommended.. recommended vs required.. I'll take a "meets or exceeds" such as HPL any day because, does HPL "exceed" Mobil 1?

 

[buster]

This may be of interest to some. I just spoke with Dave G. at Red Line. He said Red Line intentionally formulates their oils not to clean that well as they don't want to disrupt deposits that can come lose and cause more problems within the engine. I asked him if he thought the esters in Red Line contribute to a cleaning effect and he said no, they are not aggressive.

So for all these years it has been assumed Red Line is cleaning when in fact it is not. Remember there are many different types of esters. I believe HPL chose theirs based on having high solvency.

Food for thought....