HPL Ester based cleaning versus solvent based engine flush.

[Brian123]

This may be of interest to some. I just spoke with Dave G. at Red Line. He said Red Line intentionally formulates their oils not to clean that well as they don't want to disrupt deposits that can come lose and cause more problems within the engine. I asked him if he thought the esters in Red Line contribute to a cleaning effect and he said no, they are not aggressive.

So for all these years it has been assumed Red Line is cleaning when in fact it is not. Remember there are many different types of esters. I believe HPL chose theirs based on having high solvency.

Food for thought....

I will agree with what Dave G has said, to a certain extent since I have talked with him on the phone awhile back.

 

[buster]

I with agree with what Dave G has said, to a certain extent since I have talked with him on the phone awhile back.

He's always been nice and straightforward. Whether he's 100% accurate or not I do not know.

 

[UncleDave]

For heavy sludge applications, I have read/watched some very convincing results from this product:

View attachment 156202

It does seem effective, but at the same time quite harsh.
I look at this particular treatment as a weapon of last resort before deciding to tear into something.

 

[userfriendly]

Essentially, what I asked was how you knew it worked. Your response suggests you don't know if it cleaned anything.

A teardown would not be needed. There are other ways to see if there were any benefits.

In what way did the engine's running characteristics change from before to during and after, and how might that indicate that cleaning had been done?

I'm just curious as to how you've arrived at your conclusions and, knowing that might your experience be helpful to others.

The engines ran very hot for the first few hours. The oil turned black in 2,000 miles. No animals were harmed in the experiment and the engines didn't blow up. (BITOG pass) Total cost $20 plus filter.
Perhaps you could stir in a quart of Mobil Jet II or Jet 254 as seen on Project Farm, just to make things interesting.
I read on the internet that group I mono-grade engine oils have high solubility.
Maybe that has something to do with their "cleaning" ability.
I'd rather people not try the SAE 40 experiment, unless the grade is recommended by the engine manufacturer.
In other words.... you're on your own.

 

[ChrisD46]

M1 0W20 EP ?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

M1 0W20 EP ?

Nope

 

[TiGeo]

But remember...slow and steady does usually win the race! Just some BITOG meme humor here....

 

[chris719]

Would be fun if someone could recruit this guy to do engine oil testing to see what actually cleans. This one needs a bit more than most .

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Would be fun if someone could recruit this guy to do engine oil testing to see what actually cleans. This one needs a bit more than most .

I’d put that thing on a stationary dyno and use a filter bypass, and run it to an external filter unit and use gravity and a huge element to catch the crud. I think they do a similar thing for varnished turbines.

 

[ChrisD46]

I used to like Mobil1, but I remember reading countless BITOG posts years ago about a trend of consistently high Iron wear metals in the UOA's compared with other oil brands. Not sure if you had noticed those posts from a while ago. I think even the Mobil Super suffered from same issue. I know UOA's have a margin of error as expressed in the Standard Deviation, so anything within that margin of error needs to be considered equal, but still it was a troubling Mobil oil trend of higher iron wear across all car makes/models so was just wondering if that is still a concern.

That was a temporary issue with Mobil (due to a hurricane / facility / oil ingredients issue) . No worries now I believe for M1 and the new Triple Action Formula is highly rated .

 

[ChrisD46]

Seafoam (5 oz. added to oil for up to 300 miles before oil change) ?

 

[TiGeo]

Seafoam (5 oz. added to oil for up to 300 miles before oil change) ?

Unstuck the cam adjusters on my Passat...

 

[Bill7]

Keep in mind that even just changing your oil running it 5 min then draining it will also yield dark oil.

Hi TiGeo,

You mentioned you have been using LiquiMoly ProLine engine flush in your vehicles for years and some internal engine photos you provided showed extremely clean engines. I just wanted to ask you about the procedure you are using.
After doing the LiquiMoly engine flush and draining out the oil with the flush in it, some people say to do an immediate 2nd oil change with cheap oil / filter just to get any remaining flush fluid out of the engine, and then do the final oil change with the expensive strategic oil you want to use. I was wondering what your advise is on that 2nd immediate oil change with cheap oil to flush out any remaining engine flush product, and if you do it yourself?

Thanks...

 

[MolaKule]

The engines ran very hot for the first few hours. The oil turned black in 2,000 miles. No animals were harmed in the experiment and the engines didn't blow up. (BITOG pass) Total cost $20 plus filter.
Perhaps you could stir in a quart of Mobil Jet II or Jet 254 as seen on Project Farm, just to make things interesting.

Poor Internet advice as usual from PF.

I read on the internet that group I mono-grade engine oils have high solubility.
Maybe that has something to do with their "cleaning" ability.

No, Group I solubility have little to do with cleaning an engine of sludge and varnish.

 

[TiGeo]

Hi TiGeo,

You mentioned you have been using LiquiMoly ProLine engine flush in your vehicles for years and some internal engine photos you provided showed extremely clean engines. I just wanted to ask you about the procedure you are using.
After doing the LiquiMoly engine flush and draining out the oil with the flush in it, some people say to do an immediate 2nd oil change with cheap oil / filter just to get any remaining flush fluid out of the engine, and then do the final oil change with the expensive strategic oil you want to use. I was wondering what your advise is on that 2nd immediate oil change with cheap oil to flush out any remaining engine flush product, and if you do it yourself?

Thanks...

I just follow LM's directions so no, I don't no another oil change. Any tiny bits of remnant flush product is so diluted with the new oil there is just no reason (in my mind at least) to do the additional change. I do exactly this:

Oil in car for ~5K.
Dump can of LM engine flush in.
Idle car for 15 min.
Drain oil + flush. I do let it sit for quite a while until no drip.
Add oil.
Repeat.

Don't over think this. Any bit in there can't be any different than the fuel that gets in the oil over an oil change w/r to viscosity impact.

 

[Bill7]

I just follow LM's directions so no, I don't no another oil change. Any tiny bits of remnant flush product is so diluted with the new oil there is just no reason (in my mind at least) to do the additional change. I do exactly this:

Oil in car for ~5K.
Dump can of LM engine flush in.
Idle car for 15 min.
Drain oil + flush. I do let it sit for quite a while until no drip.
Add oil.
Repeat.

Don't over think this. Any bit in there can't be any different than the fuel that gets in the oil over an oil change w/r to viscosity impact.

TiGeo - Yes, that is a good strategy. Simple is best. If I make it too complicated with multiple oil changes for each flush, I'll probably stop doing it due to the extra expense and bother.

I wanted to stock up on LiquiMoly (perhaps buy 10 or more of the 500ML bottles of LiquiMoly Proline Engine flush).
Where would you recommend I buy it to get the lowest price for the batch of 10+ cans?

Thanks.

 

[TiGeo]

TiGeo - Yes, that is a good strategy. Simple is best. If I make it too complicated with multiple oil changes for each flush, I'll probably stop doing it due to the extra expense and bother.

I wanted to stock up on LiquiMoly (perhaps buy 10 or more of the 500ML bottles of LiquiMoly Proline Engine flush).
Where would you recommend I buy it to get the lowest price for the batch of 10+ cans?

Thanks.

FCP Euro.

 

[OVERKILL]

Actually the EP also states...

Utilizes Mobil 1's Triple Action+ Formula to combine outstanding engine performance, protection, and cleanliness with the added benefit of power.


I'm not sure if outstanding is better or worse than exceptional. Marketing.

Still not the same claim. Maintaining cleanliness is not the same as cleaning. I give you a tip of the hat for keeping on this though

 

[TiGeo]

@Bill7