HPL Ester based cleaning versus solvent based engine flush.
- Thread starter Bill7
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OCI = Oil Change Interval
HPL EC = High Performance Lubricants Engine Cleaner
HDMO = Heavy Duty Motor Oil (aka "diesel oil")
HPL PCMO = High Performance Lubricants Passenger Car Motor Oil
Substitute 1 quart with HPL EC for a short interval to get a slow but thorough clean. Monitor the gunk, repeat as necessary.
More like 99% of cars on the road have more sludge than they think they do.
Or, 99% of cars have more sludge than they think do, but that quantity of sludge will not have a material impact on the lifespan of the engine.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
From my (somewhat limited) experience, most are far more likely to have varnish, even heavy varnish, than sludge. And you are quite right in that this is typically transparent to the end user. Even if there is some impact on specific output or fuel economy, it is going to be so slight that they aren't really going to notice, and it will be so gradual that by the time it might start to matter, they would have already offloaded the vehicle.
We can all think of some specific examples of course where engines are very prone to issues stemming from neglect, like @michaelluscher's Scion and that Toyota engine family, but most are surprisingly tolerant.
Do you have a picture of this after the run if M1 0w40? Would be nice to see the difference just using the M1.
I would think numerous oil changes with the M1 0w40 would give desirable results
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I went to take a picture but the cam moved it’s similarly dirty to the picture I posted but not as bad. So were the oil direct contacted at that specific location seemed to clean it a bit, but the other areas still needs circulation of that oil.
Does M1 0W-40 in today's stores still have these cleaning properties, or did Mobil change (cheapen) it's formula?
Also, would HPL PCMO and M1 OW-40 have about the same cleaning properties?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I used to like Mobil1, but I remember reading countless BITOG posts years ago about a trend of consistently high Iron wear metals in the UOA's compared with other oil brands. Not sure if you had noticed those posts from a while ago. I think even the Mobil Super suffered from same issue. I know UOA's have a margin of error as expressed in the Standard Deviation, so anything within that margin of error needs to be considered equal, but still it was a troubling Mobil oil trend of higher iron wear across all car makes/models so was just wondering if that is still a concern.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I don't think it was ever a "concern", despite people making hay about it at the time. Different oils have different "signatures" in a UOA, a UOA is not a proxy for wear, it's simply a tool to help you determine the lubricant's suitability for continued use as well as a trending tool so that if something changes, dramatically, you may have a heads-up on something going wrong. It's not meant to facilitate the contrasting of things like wear performance between oils, that's well outside its scope.
IMO it only makes sense that if an oil cleans varnish and deposits away any wear metals captured in those deposits will also be released into the new oil and would show up in a UOA. Numerous UOA's would be needed to see a trend.
I know you've just copied them from the previous list so this is not @ you in any way, but motor oil is a misnomer, even if it's ubiquitous. It's used on the insides of an internal combustion engine... so it's HDEO and PCEO if we wanna use proper terminology! Motors run on AC & DC, not hydrocarbons.
I know you've just copied them from the previous list so this is not @ you in any way, but motor oil is a misnomer, even if it's ubiquitous. It's used on the insides of an internal combustion engine... so it's HDEO and PCEO if we wanna use proper terminology! Motors run on AC & DC, not hydrocarbons.
I guess I'll stop watching MOTORtrend and no longer race at the MOTOR Speedway or have fun in MOTORsports while singing ♪ Get your MOTOR run'n! ♪
A motor is something that converts energy into motion. An engine is a specific type of motor that converts thermal energy into motion. All engines are motors, but not all motors are engines. Electric motors convert electrical energy into motion. Electric motors and internal combustion engines are both types of motors. The term motor can be used interchangeably for either one.
Exactly right. Most cars get varnish even using Syn oil. Cars get stuck rings or a little material caught in the filter. True sludge in cars is rare.
I know you've just copied them from the previous list so this is not @ you in any way, but motor oil is a misnomer, even if it's ubiquitous. It's used on the insides of an internal combustion engine... so it's HDEO and PCEO if we wanna use proper terminology! Motors run on AC & DC, not hydrocarbons.
Also “Department of Motor Vehicles”
Wouldn’t a motor, powered by electricity generated from hydrocarbons, not be an engine?
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engineering.mit.edu in part states: "Motor” is rooted in the Classical Latin movere, “to move.” It first referred to propulsive force, and later, to the person or device that moved something or caused movement. “As the word came through French into English, it was used in the sense of 'initiator,'” says Fuller."View attachment 156468
Also “Department of Motor Vehicles”
Wouldn’t a motor, powered by electricity generated from hydrocarbons, not be an engine?
Now, having also frequently asked myself this question, such as, why GM for General Motors and others using word Engine.. From what I remember, all engines are motors, but not all motors are engines.
Very quick research says an engine runs on combustion or some kind of reciprocation such as the deflagration of pistons from gasoline power or i.e. steam... Motor is a machine that uses electrical or mechanical energy to create motion. (Tesla is "Dual Motor.") Bayerische Motoren Werke is BMW.. "Bavarian Motor Works."
As to the HPL Ester... It will probably do a gradual and deeper clean of stuff you didn't even know was there. I have HPL in one of my cars and I'm very much looking forward to doing another filter cut-open to see if I see "carbonic paste" and what it may be cleaning out. The Motor oil cleans better than their specific and dedicated EC or Engine Cleaner. I can't drop the oil pan again.... however, as a whole, I am pretty much sold on HPL products and I would use them first over the other regular oils that I got on clearance in my stash, just because of the superior properties and "amazing" cleaning ability.. there are better attributes to the Ester/ANs cleaning than solvents.
The oils I got on clearance are probably fine, however logic would indicate they left the varnish or sludge in the engine the HPL then cleans....
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I've seen others running the HP EC for longer than the 2k recommendation on the bottle. Is this a wise decision?
I assume the 2K recommendation is for engines that have a true need for cleaning. Most BITOG member engines are already quite clean.
I have posted a picture before that shows the Mobil HM oils provide cleaning as well, the jug stated "cleans virtually all sludge in one oil change."
Yes, I saw that on Mobil's website too. Mobil is really making a bold statement there. Some BITOG members have been getting significant deposit's of sludge in their oil filters even after running HPL Ester based oil cleaning for 26k+ miles. For Mobil 1 to say 1 oil change will remove all sludge is hard to believe.
