@Glenda W. Thank you for writing/posting Noack properly
. It really grates on me when I see it as NOACK.
VRP then moving on to boutique (HPL/Amsoil/Redline/etc) - why?
- Thread starter cammyfive79
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@Glenda W. Thank you for writing/posting Noack properly
. It really grates on me when I see it as NOACK.
Mr. Noack appreciates it too.@Glenda W. Thank you for writing/posting Noack properly
I know a Mr. Noack. Great guy! Doesn't know anything about engine oil.
I jumped on the VRP bandwagon with my daily driver, a F250 with a big dirty V8. It travels a few miles here and a few miles there each day. But it has relatively low miles and wasn't much of an oil burner to begin with. I'm guessing a half a quart over an oil change. I fixed a minor leak in the meantime, so I don't have a definitive answer on the before. I'm 2500 miles into my first run with VRP. I've documented the "performance" difference I felt in the first 500 miles or so. But other things are interesting:
- The color of the oil is a dark honey color. Previous drains were black.
- I mentioned that the truck was quieter and more responsive for the first 500 miles. The remaining 2000 is back to normal. So the quietness and power goes away, suddenly and permanently (for this OCI).
- I fixed a leak at the oil filter base, and since have been checking oil level regularly. I have taken it on a couple 3hr trips as well as daily commuting. The oil level is consistent and un-moving. I have it right at the top of the "full" mark (small hole in the stick). It hasn't budged for months now.
Seems to me the buzz is in the "restore" part of the oil. I'm kinda hoping that the "protect" is just as impressive. Probably gonna keep running this for a while to see how it.
I jumped on the VRP bandwagon with my daily driver, a F250 with a big dirty V8. It travels a few miles here and a few miles there each day. But it has relatively low miles and wasn't much of an oil burner to begin with. I'm guessing a half a quart over an oil change. I fixed a minor leak in the meantime, so I don't have a definitive answer on the before. I'm 2500 miles into my first run with VRP. I've documented the "performance" difference I felt in the first 500 miles or so. But other things are interesting:
- The color of the oil is a dark honey color. Previous drains were black.
- I mentioned that the truck was quieter and more responsive for the first 500 miles. The remaining 2000 is back to normal. So the quietness and power goes away, suddenly and permanently (for this OCI).
- I fixed a leak at the oil filter base, and since have been checking oil level regularly. I have taken it on a couple 3hr trips as well as daily commuting. The oil level is consistent and un-moving. I have it right at the top of the "full" mark (small hole in the stick). It hasn't budged for months now.
Seems to me the buzz is in the "restore" part of the oil. I'm kinda hoping that the "protect" is just as impressive. Probably gonna keep running this for a while to see how it.
True. I guess my original point was, unless you have consistent consumption increases with a poorly designed engine, it’s not necessarily a better option outside of that primary feature it offers. Much like if you use a boutique oil for only 3k miles, no real need, right? I believe the boutique is a better overall fluid when all other factors you want in an oil are considered, but whether I can make most benefit from it depends on the engine and service conditions.
Zero
There are different versions though. Ex, cPAO and mPAO
OVERKILL
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It's not just Esters and PAO, it's Ester/AN/PAO or Ester/AN/G3 depending on the product family and that specific combination was chosen because it provides high solvency, while reducing the tendency for surface competition by using a lower ester dose, since esters are quite polar and will fight for surface space with the AW additives.
As was noted by @BMWTurboDzl, there are many families of esters and not all of them are good at cleaning, and that may not be the intention of the blender (cleaning) instead focusing on oxidative stability or some other metric that leads them to choose a different ester.
But again, it's not just about the base oil blend, that was just one aspect touched-on in my post, it's also about absolutely no compromises made on other aspects of the product, such as AW performance, because profit isn't the motive here, these products are blended because Dave decided to produce something for the consumer space and let Dr. Rudnick have some fun, working without constraints, the main focus of the business is racing, industrial applications and large fleets, for which some of these products were blended. There are no "sales" guys to pay or distribution network to manage, it's a specialized business that focuses on producing top-performing products for the industries I mentioned and whose owner decided to have some fun making some of these products, plus some bespoke offerings, available through the website. He's an enthusiast, like many members on here, so he joined this forum and engaged with us and, based on those interactions, that's how some of the products they offer were developed. He also opened up his factory to us and many members got a full site tour of the operation, which was a pretty amazing gesture on his part.
As I said, these products may not be everybody's cup of tea. The price can be hard to justify for a DD, and that's fine. But if you are looking for the absolute best in wear performance while also actively cleaning, I'm not aware of another product equally capable.
OVERKILL
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VRP cleans. But it's still an oil formulated to a price point, forced into the formulation box based on the API restrictions on things like phosphorous. So VRP may deliver comparable levels of cleaning performance, but that doesn't mean it's going to provide the same levels of AW performance.
Bingo. My question is answered. VRP stops/mitigates/reverses where possible the leading cause of consumption and burning. HPL does that while also providing anti-wear properties to the entire engine and offering absurdly long drain intervals (if you're into that sorta of madness
). I will continue to roll with HPL in one of our cars just because, and use VRP in the wife's as it will keep it nice and clean on the inside of the engine for the next owner in a year or two.I was conflating cleaning/deposit prevention with anti-wear properties overall.
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How does anybody here know that one brand of oil (HPL) has better anti-wear performance than VRP, if the viscosities are similar?
HM oil in a vehicle that isn’t already leaking is IMO counterproductive. If it’s not leaking, you don’t need additional seal swell, and if you do have more swell, it’s more likely to cause than to prevent a leak.
You don’t want to swell the seals additional just to swell them when they’re already sealing at the current degree of swell.
Your comment is overly simplistic. According to Valvoline (I thought I'd reference them sncei this thread is about a Valvoline product), seeing an obvious leak is but one consideration. There are a number of factors involved in deciding to use an HM oil.
If your engine is leaking oil, it may very well be too late to use a high mileage oil.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
It comes down to trusting the blender because I doubt we are going to see Dave rolling out comparative results between his products and your typical OTS offerings.
HPL specifically focuses on minimizing wear, with the cost of doing so not really considered. VRP is a commodity oil, forced into the API compliance box, which means they are limited on additives, and the product must meet a price point.
From a wear perspective, VRP is likely going to be comparable to other Valvoline offerings in this space, with similar additive packages. For say the dexos oils, HPL starts with this type of additive package, but opts for a more expensive carrier, and then, through testing, modifies various additive levels to get wear as low as possible.
Of course Dave still starts with a dexos-style additive package for the PCMO oils, which is why I requested, and he was kind enough to oblige, a full-SAPS Euro additive package in a 0W-20. Basically, everything we liked about an oil like M1 FS 0W-40, but blended as a 0W-20, which we run in our RAM.
I wish they would share at least some comparative results, not necessarily in the anti-wear category. I liked that Lakespeed Jr. and HPL collaborated in testing and sharing M1 test data, but think they should have also included results for at least one HPL oil.
You know the following, but some here do not. Aside from viscosity, anti-wear performance is a function of the interaction of many additives, the chemistry of the base oils, and the chemistry and surface roughness of the metal parts. Large doses of detergents and dispersants to improve long drain capability tend to interfere with the anti-wear additives. Esters can compete with anti-wear additives. Then compensating for that with more anti-wear additives increases SAPS and all of those metals tend to deposit on the upper parts of pistons and the rings. Thankfully they do help decrease the amount of more problematic carbon-based piston deposits, so it’s not all bad, but it is not optimal when the OCIs are short enough. Formulating to enhance certain categories of performance often hinders it in other categories, so an oil can’t be made to be optimized in every category.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Well, we could always request it? @High Performance Lubricants do you guys have any comparative data you'd be willing to share, maybe without calling out specific competitors but giving us an idea of how performance compares with API-approved "standard" products?
VRP is as far as I know still not on the shelves here, so skipping that and going with a PAO/Ester blend that is advertising "No oil limited deposits in combustion chambers, at the piston ring and valves" and "Unchanged viscosity during the whole oil change interval".
HPL is also not available
HPL is also not available
That's not true. Starting at around 9:20 or so in this video the senior engineering manager at Valvoline talks about it cleaning intake valves.
@MVAR
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