Help with recommendation for motor oil for Toyota and Nissan daily drivers

[tired]

I do the maintenance on two cars, a first gen Toyota Tundra (V6 5VZ-FE) and a second gen Nissan Rogue with the 2.5 L QR25DE engine. I've really tried to read here and watch a lot of Youtube (LSJ, Car Care Nut) and get recommendations from a trusted friend with a lot of experience, and honestly I feel less certain about my choices than when I started. I'd be interested in some recommendations from people with more experience and smarter than me.

For the Tundra:

• 230K miles. I received no maintenance history from the PO. Jiffy Lube sticker in the windshield. I called them and they confirmed once a year dino oil changes with the emissions check as far back as they could see. As far as I can tell, no engine issues except for a valve cover gasket leak that isn't bad enough to fix yet. Does not appear to burn oil from what I can see (accounting for some loss from the valve cover gasket).
• Will be a low mileage vehicle. <7000 miles a year I'd bet. Unfortunately severe driving conditions. Most trips are 2 to 4 miles. The engine gets fully warm for whatever it's worth on my trips to and from work and around town. I try to get it on the highway as much as I can, but it honestly doesn't get above 45 mph for 90% of its driving except when going camping where I do a little offroading too. So pretty severe all around. Winters are cold and snowy. Summers are hot.
• First oil change after I got it was a Valvoline synthetic. Switched it pretty quickly to VRP when I took over the maintenance given the dino oil used and questionable history.
• Manual calls for 5W-30.
• Plan to keep it until I take it to the junkyard for frame rust.

For the Nissan:

• Better service history. Probably 80% synthetic changes in the past, at least annual. Pretty much on schedule I'd say, without pulling the maintenance folder. But always at the dealer or another lube place. I think the dealer uses M1 on these, but it's had bulk oil for some changes.
• Manual calls for 0W-20.
• No engine or CVT issues. We've been aggressive with the CVT service, and we plan to keep it long term. Low mileage at 70k now.
• Severe driving conditions with slightly more highway time for road trips. But generally, lots of tanks of gas of just 2 - 4 mile trips on surface streets.
• Currently running VRP in it, since it's had dino in the past for a few changes.

I'm frankly pretty open to doing anything for these cars. My thoughts have pretty much run the gamut. Thought about just buying Kirkland Signature and changing every 5000 or more likely every 6 months like LSJ and the Car Care Nut would recommend and forgetting about it. All the way to running Schaeffer's 9000. I have a dealer close to me and can get it at $10/quart. AMSOIL XL also seems like a pretty good option at a similar price point. But then I hear LSJ's "any oil that meets the spec will be fine for daily drivers." And reading about people developing oil burning here with good driving habits and AMSOIL SS and HPL (and other quality synthetics) is enough to make me reconsider. Should I just run the AMSOIL syn-blend and change every 3-4k?? There's just too many options. Thought about just running VRP forever and forgetting about it too. My friend loves PUP and runs it in all his Toyotas. I have a bit of a bias to support a family-owned company though. Exxon Mobil has enough money. So that's partly why I keep circling back to using Schaeffer's or AMSOIL.

I believe in driving beaters and maintaining them well, just from a personal finance perspective.

Goal for both is engine longevity without issues. I never want to look in the past and wish I'd used a better oil to avoid issues. Obviously don't want to flush money down the drain, but ok with a higher cost oil if it means better protection. I'm ok with changing more frequently too. I don't mind doing the work. Kinda zen.

My suspicion is that the Tundra with the 5VZ that's literally from the 1990s will be easy on oil and anything would work. I also don't know the utility of running a boutique oil in it given it's long history of dino oil and little care for it. Maybe it would be of benefit? Or is that benefit mainly when done from the beginning? And judging from the body scrapes, it's been driven hard offroad in its former life. It's multi-port injected.

For the Rogue, probably not as easy on oil. I don't think it burns oil yet. No issues so far. It's GDI though but at least no turbo.

Anyway, just need some more advice. Like what is all this fuss about M1 ESP?? Too many of my thoughts on motor oil I think have been influenced by UOAs from Youtubers that I now understand from reading here, you can't use UOAs to evaluate the quality of an oil. Teardowns are better. (That would certainly be news to Ford Boss Me. He loves PUP based on VOAs and UOAs.) I was even surprised to see LSJ use UOAs to claim that Napa brand is better than AMSOIL OE (or at least as good) in one of his recent videos. Seems like he would know better than that. Happy to answer any other questions too.

 

[kschachn]

So you are wondering what is the best motor oil?

I suppose the fuss about ESP is the low cost at Walmart plus the demanding approvals the oil holds. Sufficient HT/HS for most any engine under most any conditions. Pretty much a very good oil at a very good price and can be used in almost any engine.

$28 for five quarts and I'd love to see technical information that shows it is inferior to any boutique brand for most people.

As an aside, Ford Boss Me is an idiot. To pick on just one thing you cannot use a $30 spectrographic analysis to perform comparative oil quality analysis. That is far more difficult than a few UOA.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Just get a low cost 5w30 synthetic like Supertech or Kirkland for both and change every 6months

 

[GRUMPYDUDE2]

Just to simplify life. I would go 5-30 on both. Any major brand syn oil on sale will do, including Supertech or Kirkland. Change every 5k or once a year.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Perhaps the new Kirk High Mileage stuff? I just bought some. Or M1 High Mileage for about $5 more per jug? I would not pay more than M1.

 

[tired]

So you are wondering what is the best motor oil?

I suppose the fuss about ESP is the low cost at Walmart plus the demanding approvals the oil holds. Sufficient HT/HS for most any engine under most any conditions. Pretty much a very good oil at a very good price and can be used in almost any engine.

$28 for five quarts and I'd love to see technical information that shows it is inferior to any boutique brand for most people.

As an aside, Ford Boss Me is an idiot. To pick on just one thing you cannot use a $30 spectrographic analysis to perform comparative oil quality analysis. That is far more difficult than a few UOA.

Yes, for my application. Lots of short tripping. I know that usage influences recommendations.

 

[tired]

Just get a low cost 5w30 synthetic like Supertech or Kirkland for both and change every 6months

Very strongly considering this.

Just to simplify life. I would go 5-30 on both. Any major brand syn oil on sale will do, including Supertech or Kirkland. Change every 5k or once a year.

Anything lost by switching to 5W-30 from 0W-20? Manual says 0W-20 but 5W-30 ok in a pinch. Just don't want to hurt anything.

Perhaps the new Kirk High Mileage stuff? I just bought some. Or M1 High Mileage for about $5 more per jug? I would not pay more than M1.
View attachment 270263

Very strongly considering this.

 

[kschachn]

Yes, for my application. Lots of short tripping. I know that usage influences recommendations.

Short tripping in the winter is detrimental and there is little reason to use an expensive oil. Your best defense is a short OCI.

 

[kschachn]

Anything lost by switching to 5W-30 from 0W-20? Manual says 0W-20 but 5W-30 ok in a pinch. Just don't want to hurt anything.

You gain wear protection. A higher HT/HS does not cause harm.

Unless you’re starting at temperatures below about -30 then you do not need an oil with a 0W winter rating.

 

[tired]

Short tripping in the winter is detrimental and there is little reason to use an expensive oil. Your best defense is a short OCI.

Any reason not to use VRP? It's about the same price as M1 ESP.

Another argument is VRP/M1 ESP/PUP is only about $5/jug more than Supertech and KS.

 

[Brian123]

I do the maintenance on two cars, a first gen Toyota Tundra (V6 5VZ-FE) and a second gen Nissan Rogue with the 2.5 L QR25DE engine. I've really tried to read here and watch a lot of Youtube (LSJ, Car Care Nut) and get recommendations from a trusted friend with a lot of experience, and honestly I feel less certain about my choices than when I started. I'd be interested in some recommendations from people with more experience and smarter than me.

For the Tundra:

• 230K miles. I received no maintenance history from the PO. Jiffy Lube sticker in the windshield. I called them and they confirmed once a year dino oil changes with the emissions check as far back as they could see. As far as I can tell, no engine issues except for a valve cover gasket leak that isn't bad enough to fix yet. Does not appear to burn oil from what I can see (accounting for some loss from the valve cover gasket).
• Will be a low mileage vehicle. <7000 miles a year I'd bet. Unfortunately severe driving conditions. Most trips are 2 to 4 miles. The engine gets fully warm for whatever it's worth on my trips to and from work and around town. I try to get it on the highway as much as I can, but it honestly doesn't get above 45 mph for 90% of its driving except when going camping where I do a little offroading too. So pretty severe all around. Winters are cold and snowy. Summers are hot.
• First oil change after I got it was a Valvoline synthetic. Switched it pretty quickly to VRP when I took over the maintenance given the dino oil used and questionable history.
• Manual calls for 5W-30.
• Plan to keep it until I take it to the junkyard for frame rust.

For the Nissan:

• Better service history. Probably 80% synthetic changes in the past, at least annual. Pretty much on schedule I'd say, without pulling the maintenance folder. But always at the dealer or another lube place. I think the dealer uses M1 on these, but it's had bulk oil for some changes.
• Manual calls for 0W-20.
• No engine or CVT issues. We've been aggressive with the CVT service, and we plan to keep it long term. Low mileage at 70k now.
• Severe driving conditions with slightly more highway time for road trips. But generally, lots of tanks of gas of just 2 - 4 mile trips on surface streets.
• Currently running VRP in it, since it's had dino in the past for a few changes.

I'm frankly pretty open to doing anything for these cars. My thoughts have pretty much run the gamut. Thought about just buying Kirkland Signature and changing every 5000 or more likely every 6 months like LSJ and the Car Care Nut would recommend and forgetting about it. All the way to running Schaeffer's 9000. I have a dealer close to me and can get it at $10/quart. AMSOIL XL also seems like a pretty good option at a similar price point. But then I hear LSJ's "any oil that meets the spec will be fine for daily drivers." And reading about people developing oil burning here with good driving habits and AMSOIL SS and HPL (and other quality synthetics) is enough to make me reconsider. Should I just run the AMSOIL syn-blend and change every 3-4k?? There's just too many options. Thought about just running VRP forever and forgetting about it too. My friend loves PUP and runs it in all his Toyotas. I have a bit of a bias to support a family-owned company though. Exxon Mobil has enough money. So that's partly why I keep circling back to using Schaeffer's or AMSOIL.

I believe in driving beaters and maintaining them well, just from a personal finance perspective.

Goal for both is engine longevity without issues. I never want to look in the past and wish I'd used a better oil to avoid issues. Obviously don't want to flush money down the drain, but ok with a higher cost oil if it means better protection. I'm ok with changing more frequently too. I don't mind doing the work. Kinda zen.

My suspicion is that the Tundra with the 5VZ that's literally from the 1990s will be easy on oil and anything would work. I also don't know the utility of running a boutique oil in it given it's long history of dino oil and little care for it. Maybe it would be of benefit? Or is that benefit mainly when done from the beginning? And judging from the body scrapes, it's been driven hard offroad in its former life. It's multi-port injected.

For the Rogue, probably not as easy on oil. I don't think it burns oil yet. No issues so far. It's GDI though but at least no turbo.

Anyway, just need some more advice. Like what is all this fuss about M1 ESP?? Too many of my thoughts on motor oil I think have been influenced by UOAs from Youtubers that I now understand from reading here, you can't use UOAs to evaluate the quality of an oil. Teardowns are better. (That would certainly be news to Ford Boss Me. He loves PUP based on VOAs and UOAs.) I was even surprised to see LSJ use UOAs to claim that Napa brand is better than AMSOIL OE (or at least as good) in one of his recent videos. Seems like he would know better than that. Happy to answer any other questions too.

With your driving conditions, Valvoline Restore and Protect is your best option. PUP is yesterday's news!
Amsoil SS is a great oil, but we are looking at your driving conditions and the oil's that were used before you started doing oil changes. This oil could be ok, but in your situation VPR would be better.
You could buck the trend here and try HPL and see what happens!

 

[tired]

With your driving conditions, Valvoline Restore and Protect is your best option. PUP is yesterday's news!
Amsoil SS is a great oil, but we are looking at your driving conditions and the oil's that were used before you started doing oil changes. This oil could be ok, but in your situation VPR would be better.
You could buck the trend here and try HPL and see what happens!

Ha, I suspect HPL would work great, but that would be seriously overkill I imagine. Probably wouldn't notice much of a difference.

 

[Brian123]

Ha, I suspect HPL would work great, but that would be seriously overkill I imagine. Probably wouldn't notice much of a difference.

You mention HPL and you say overkill! Give this oil from HPL a shot, meaning their entry level PCMO Oil and get a UOA done on both vehicles at 5000 miles. Make sure you get a TBN and then look at the numbers for both vehicles. You may find that you can run this oil from HPL longer than 5000 miles. You might prove that HPL does everything VRP does, and you can run the oil longer than 5000 miles!

 

[WeyounDS9]

The 2004 manual for the Sentra with Qr25de recomended 5w-30 year around with 10w-30 and 10w-40 listed as approved if temps above 0F.

The engine is the same as in the '04 Sentra, only the policies of getting better mpg in EPA engine tests via thin oil has changed the "recommendations" to 0w-20.

Also the QR25de is one of the stoutest 4 cyl engines ever made by Nissan, or anyone for that matter.
A buddy of mine had one in his Sentra SER-SPEC V with the manual kept autocrossing it, all the time wringing it out to the max and changed the cams and the tune to get 200 hp at the wheels.
First one in the US, to have gotten a Sentra naturally aspirated to 200 hp to the wheels.
Never an issue.

A Nissan Master tech tells me the QR25DE is strong enough, that even if towed into the shop for flooded engine, these engines dont need a new bottom end 9 out of 10 times.

 

[OilUzer]

In my Tundra I switch between M1 EP 10W-30 and Valvoline EP 5W-30. Good oils and about $30/5qt with no fancy Euro approvals. And that's the car I care the most about. I have never seen these oils on sale either.

I experiment with various other oil including Euro oil with many approvals in our other cars depending on what's on sale. I find Euro oil typically under $25 / 5 qt.

And short OCIs. These days, 5000-6000 miles max. 6500 if it's raining.

 

[tired]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.

As an aside, Ford Boss Me is an idiot. To pick on just one thing you cannot use a $30 spectrographic analysis to perform comparative oil quality analysis. That is far more difficult than a few UOA.

I'm quickly learning here that is no way to evaluate oil quality. Still surprised to see LSJ use it on his video on AMSOIL OE vs NAPA vs RP (knowing what I know now).

You gain wear protection. A higher HT/HS does not cause harm.

Unless you’re starting at temperatures below about -30 then you do not need an oil with a 0W winter rating.

What do these Euro approvals show? Higher quality oil? What kind of tests do they perform that the API testing does not? Are the tests more likely to correlate with less wear and fewer deposits over the long term?

Would fuel economy drop with the switch to 5W-30?

You mention HPL and you say overkill! Give this oil from HPL a shot, meaning their entry level PCMO Oil and get a UOA done on both vehicles at 5000 miles. Make sure you get a TBN and then look at the numbers for both vehicles. You may find that you can run this oil from HPL longer than 5000 miles. You might prove that HPL does everything VRP does, and you can run the oil longer than 5000 miles!

Even the cheapest PCMO from HPL, with the coupon here and with shipping is more than $12/quart. Plus a $60 UOA to see if I can run it longer. No doubt it's special oil but not sure what it's going to add over other good options.

The 2004 manual for the Sentra with Qr25de recomended 5w-30 year around with 10w-30 and 10w-40 listed as approved if temps above 0F.

The engine is the same as in the '04 Sentra, only the policies of getting better mpg in EPA engine tests via thin oil has changed the "recommendations" to 0w-20.

Also the QR25de is one of the stoutest 4 cyl engines ever made by Nissan, or anyone for that matter.
A buddy of mine had one in his Sentra SER-SPEC V with the manual kept autocrossing it, all the time wringing it out to the max and changed the cams and the tune to get 200 hp at the wheels.
First one in the US, to have gotten a Sentra naturally aspirated to 200 hp to the wheels.
Never an issue.

A Nissan Master tech tells me the QR25DE is strong enough, that even if towed into the shop for flooded engine, these engines dont need a new bottom end 9 out of 10 times.

That is great to hear. It has been a good engine for us. We accidentally towed much more than the car was rated for (given the wrong trailer by Uhaul, packed tightly), and it did great. Even over the continental divide. Didn't miss a beat.

Very interesting about the same engine calling for different oil in the manual over the years...

In my Tundra I switch between M1 EP 10W-30 and Valvoline EP 5W-30. Good oils and about $30/5qt with no fancy Euro approvals. And that's the car I care the most about. I have never seen these oils on sale either.

I experiment with various other oil including Euro oil with many approvals in our other cars depending on what's on sale. I find Euro oil typically under $25 / 5 qt.

And short OCIs. These days, 5000-6000 miles max. 6500 if it's raining.

Why not use the Euro oils in the Tundra? Which engine do you have? More approvals would be better right?

 

[OilUzer]

...
Why not use the Euro oils in the Tundra? Which engine do you have? More approvals would be better right?

5.7L v8

Tundra is very easy on oil.
Also I don't need 0W in my area and 10W is very adequate.

I try to go one notch higher than the owner's manual recommendation or spec. I have also seen many good reports with M1 EP and Valvoline EP 5W-30 has UOAs comparable to Amsoil.

My own experience with M1 EP 10W-30 has been very good also. It doesn't burn in any of our cars. That's the only approval I care about. I don't care how many approvals an oil carries, If it burns, game over.

For example M1 FS 0W-40 burned in the only car I tried and in a week or two I'm trying M1 5W-40 (with the same Euro approvals) in the same car to see what's going on ... And this car didn't burn any oil with other oils that I've tried including M1 EP 10W-30, Havoline PRO DS 5W-30, Kirkland 5W-30, Castrol Euro 0W-40, and in older days, Chevron Supreme 5/10W-30, Castrol GTX Magnatec 5/10W-30.
It also burned oil with another full synthetic 5W-30 multiple times but I am not going to mention the brand. I am a M1 fan so I feel like it's not a real criticism but FS 0W-40 is like a family member I'm staying away for now. Lol

If you are looking for a good Euro oil, lately I have been buying bunch of Castrol Edge Euro Car 5W-30 on sale gor $24.xx/5qt with the following approvals:
A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5/229.3, VW 505 00/502 00
Exceeds API SL.
Price per approval is very good.

 

[Glenda W.]

You know my adventures well from my oil burner thread. As you also know my thoughts have changed on using any synthetic oil at 5k mile oci’s. The Valvoline R&P 5w30 will work great in both vehicles and clean up if needed and keep things clean. You’re definitely severe service so keep oci’s 5k or under. ESP 0w30 is my current oil in everything and would also work great. It has very stringent approvals that concentrate on wear, sludge, oxidative thickening, and deposits.

As far a boutique's, probably in my next new car. Not sure it would benefit you in your circumstances.

(image removed - MOD)

 

[Hohn]

I'd just do 5w30 VRP in each in shortish OCIs.

It's cheap enough you aren't breaking the bank to run short OCIs. It seems (in my experience) like it can clean up even 18 year old engines full of varnish.

If you had truly cold starts, I'd suggest running a couple OCIs of VRP and switching to ESP 0w-30. But if you don't need the 0w (and few of us do), then the 5w30 VRP is the easy button.

 

[kschachn]

I'd just do 5w30 VRP in each in shortish OCIs.

It's cheap enough you aren't breaking the bank to run short OCIs. It seems (in my experience) like it can clean up even 18 year old engines full of varnish.

If you had truly cold starts, I'd suggest running a couple OCIs of VRP and switching to ESP 0w-30. But if you don't need the 0w (and few of us do), then the 5w30 VRP is the easy button.

But if you make a decision then the thread can’t continue.