Outside of extended OCIs with ideal usage (all highway), what is the use case for boutique oils?

[JohnnyJohnson]

Wallet Cardio!

 

[tired]

If you email Maryjane in the office at HPL you can get any amount of quarts you would like.

Thank you. Unfortunately learned that too late.

 

[Panda87]

A well designed engine (which some aren't) can last a few hundred thousand miles on most store bought oils so I see no reason to spend big money on boutique oils. The most expensive oils I could see buying are Mobil 1 EP or Castrol EP (gold jug). If I did splurge for one of those I'd want to extend my OCI to justify the cost. (I think both are claiming 20 or 25K OCI capability...which I would never do). I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?

Do both on your engine, get them analyzed, and post the analyses here for everyone to learn from.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

Do both on your engine, get them analyzed, and post the analyses here for everyone to learn from.

This. My port injected 3.5 cyclone is as boring as it is clean running and well behaved. With buttload of idling and short trips i still have no moisture or dilution issues. I drive a LOT so the super duper Amsoil, HPL, Redline oil actually makes sense for me.
If I am running honda 1.5T engine I might as well use 2 stroke fuel and change it as often as my underwear (yes hyperbole for the sake of humor).

 

[kschachn]

Do both on your engine, get them analyzed, and post the analyses here for everyone to learn from.

You can't do comparative oil quality differentiation via a $35 spectrographic analysis. Besides, wear isn't even going to be a metric here. Superior base stocks help with things like sludge and deposit formation.

 

[Panda87]

You can't do comparative oil quality differentiation via a $35 spectrographic analysis. Besides, wear isn't even going to be a metric here. Superior base stocks help with things like sludge and deposit formation.

Sure, but the core of my point to him was to answer his own question of “I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?”

The only way he (or BITOG writ large) will learn from this question is to use the testing methods available to those of us who don’t have millions of dollars worth of equipment or thousands of dollars worth of engines on stands to abuse them in a way that would draw meaningful conclusions about the protection of either oil at either OCI.

 

[kschachn]

Sure, but the core of my point to him was to answer his own question of “I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?”

The only way he (or BITOG writ large) will learn from this question is to use the testing methods available to those of us who don’t have millions of dollars worth of equipment or thousands of dollars worth of engines on stands to abuse them in a way that would draw meaningful conclusions about the protection of either oil at either OCI.

What's the value on the UOA that shows protection?

 

[OVERKILL]

Sure, but the core of my point to him was to answer his own question of “I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?”

The only way he (or BITOG writ large) will learn from this question is to use the testing methods available to those of us who don’t have millions of dollars worth of equipment or thousands of dollars worth of engines on stands to abuse them in a way that would draw meaningful conclusions about the protection of either oil at either OCI.

No data is better than bad data.

 

[ripcord]

Sure, but the core of my point to him was to answer his own question of “I've often wondered which would protect better...5 or 6k OCI's on Supertech or Kirkland synthetic vs. 8 or 9k on the Mobil or Castrol EP's? Thoughts?”

The only way he (or BITOG writ large) will learn from this question is to use the testing methods available to those of us who don’t have millions of dollars worth of equipment or thousands of dollars worth of engines on stands to abuse them in a way that would draw meaningful conclusions about the protection of either oil at either OCI.

Without those expensive lab environments, those aren't "testing methods," those are anecdote gathering.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I mean honestly we have 8 pages of wasted effort.
We have some passionate car nuts here who only want the best for their cars.
Let people run what they want to run and how they want to run it.
Don't treat OCI's as a religion

 

[tired]

You can't do comparative oil quality differentiation via a $35 spectrographic analysis. Besides, wear isn't even going to be a metric here. Superior base stocks help with things like sludge and deposit formation.

What oil do you recommend for superior base stock?

 

[Panda87]

Without those expensive lab environments, those aren't "testing methods," those are anecdote gathering.

And? How would you go about handling his question?

 

[Panda87]

What's the value on the UOA that shows protection?

Would one say that comparing additive levels known to impact internal wear wouldn’t be beneficial to understand between the two oils and the proposed OCIs? Specifically analyzing the decline/consumption of those additives compared to virgin samples?

 

[Panda87]

Without those expensive lab environments, those aren't "testing methods," thos

No data is better than bad data.

Playing Devil’s advocate: I would argue that any data is good data, much like publicity. It’s what one does with the data that can become problematic.

 

[ripcord]

Playing Devil’s advocate: I would argue that any data is good data, much like publicity. It’s what one does with the data that can become problematic.

Data is only good if it's reliable enough to firm an accurate conclusion. If you draw an erroneous conclusion based on bad data, that's way worse than an "I don't know."

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

Playing Devil’s advocate: I would argue that any data is good data, much like publicity. It’s what one does with the data that can become problematic.

No not really. If my doctor is trying to figure out how to treat my kidney stone and which drug I am dearly allergic to my favorite color is usless data for the doctor.

 

[Panda87]

Data is only good if it's reliable enough to firm an accurate conclusion. If you draw an erroneous conclusion based on bad data, that's way worse than an "I don't know."

I see your point, however, in your example, the data wasn’t bad, the erroneous conclusion was. It simply needed a larger dataset to further develop an educated conclusion.

 

[kschachn]

Would one say that comparing additive levels known to impact internal wear wouldn’t be beneficial to understand between the two oils and the proposed OCIs? Specifically analyzing the decline/consumption of those additives compared to virgin samples?

With a spectrographic analysis you're not seeing additives, you're seeing atoms from decomposed compounds. Additives are compounds, not atoms. Some additive compounds contain some of the same atoms but are more, or less effective at different treat levels.

Plus you're only looking at certain atoms and they are mostly metallic. There are additives that do not contain atoms which are visible in a spectrographic analysis.

In a fully formulated motor oil the attempt to predict future performance through a VOA or UOA is a fool's errand. The tests that actually do measure performance are much more complicated and it's where licenses, specifications and approvals are obtained. None of those utilize a cheap UOA.

 

[Panda87]

No not really. If my doctor is trying to figure out how to treat my kidney stone and which drug I am dearly allergic to my favorite color is usless data for the doctor.

That’s a logical fallacy and is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We were discussing two types of oil and two OCI lengths. Do we not find value in analyses on this forum?

 

[OVERKILL]

Playing Devil’s advocate: I would argue that any data is good data, much like publicity. It’s what one does with the data that can become problematic.

So you would argue that the bad data that a Soviet sub commander refused to act on, which would have caused World War III, during the Cold War was in fact "good data" because it was data?