Outside of extended OCIs with ideal usage (all highway), what is the use case for boutique oils?

[Sumboodie]

They do great at removing money from wallets for 99% of oil users.

 

[OVERKILL]

They do great at removing money from wallets for 99% of oil users.

I wouldn't say it's that high, since "oil users" would include fleet and industrial customers who actually use the tool for its intended purpose. However, for folks doing recreational UOA's on short runs like many we see on here, trying to infer conclusions from data that inherently lacks the accuracy required to do so, I'd say there's definitely money being wasted.

 

[Hohn]

I would posit with a just a bit of planning around sales, it's possible for a DIY guy to run boutique less expensively than pulling into a lube shop and ordering " full synthetic".

While I believe my usage of boutiques to be a mild indulgence, it's not nearly as extravagant as might be believed.

Let's say I buy a 6pk of HPL PCMO for $70 After BITOG discount and shipping and tax, I'm looking at $84 ($83.57 precisely) for 6 quarts of oil shipped to my home. Add my preferred Microgard select or Pentius filter and I'm looking at just under $100 doing it myself.


The local Valvoline quick lube wants $101 to install <5qts Valvoline Advanced (their lowest tier full synthetic) with the standard filter (of unknown quality). Then I'd be asked to pay tax, disposal fees, etc and I'd be $115 or so out the door.


And that's assuming not extending the OCI a single mile in either situation.


So yeah, a suppose by one measure, a boutique oil is a "luxury." But it's a smaller luxury compared to the luxury of not DIYing the job.

And I actually don't think it a luxury at all to have someone other than me change the oil. I don't cross thread or strip oil pans or plugs. Quick lube techs aren't the ASE masters of the technician world.

The real cost of even splurging for Supercar and tossing it after 5k miles is just not a big deal. So yeah, I tossed perfectly good ultimate-tier oil at 5k miles and wasted a lot of value. But it was $100 worth of oil in 5000 miles, or 2 cents per mile.

Contrast that with the fuel expense, which is about 10x the cost per mile. ($4/gal 20mpg =20 cents/mile).

Even tires cost more the HPL oils do. My last set of rubber was $1000 and lasted 30k miles. That's 3.3 cents per mile-- or over 50% greater expense than using the most expensive HPL oil at 5k OCIs.

I can skip one meal out every 6 months and have paid for all the "premium" oil I will use in that period.

 

[Panda87]

They do great at removing money from wallets for 99% of oil users.

Man, the “anti-boutique” folks are out in droves all peddling that same line about it being more expensive. I’ve proven time and again that, given my motorcycle as an example, HPL with filter changes and analyses performed every 10k miles over a 30k mile interval costs over $200 less than cheap oil and filter. It SAVES me money and supports a small business with stellar customer service.

 

[TiGeo]

This is frankly a big part of it.

I don't think you can justify the expensive of niche oils purely on UOAs are similar measures of "performance."

At some point it become an intangible "I want the very best that exists, and I can afford to indulge it."

By performance if you are speaking of wear metal rates oil 1 to oil 2, agreed. If you look at viscosity drop yes, UOA data are valuable. The issue typically is not having a robust enough dataset but for most of us you just have to work with what you have. I have a large set of UOA data and it tells me that the HPL I use in the car that sees track use/abuse is a better choice than other "normal" oils I was using. Since I am going 2x the mileage now between changes the cost difference is negligible vs. tires/brake pads/brake fluid that I buy. If you drive a normal car normally (haha) HPL change 1/year should be cheaper than whatever you are doing now at 2-3x that to "feel good".

 

[Hohn]

By performance if you are speaking of wear metal rates oil 1 to oil 2, agreed. If you look at viscosity drop yes, UOA data are valuable. The issue typically is not having a robust enough dataset but for most of us but you work with what you have. I have a large set of UOA data and it tells me that the HPL I use in the car that sees track use/abuse is a better choice than other "normal" oils I was using. Since I am going 2x the mileage now between changes the cost difference is negligible vs. tires/brake pads/brake fluid that I buy. If you drive a normal car normally (haha) HPL change 1/year should be cheaper than whatever you are doing now at 2-3x that to "feel good".

I completely agree, hence my quotation marks. How does one do "air quotes" in typed text? Hmmmm.

 

[TiGeo]

The math on my 3 vehicles:

I buy 4 gal of HPL Euro 5W40 at a time, with the 15% BITOG discount, that's ~$240 delivered or ~$15/qt. For my Sportwagen and Atlas, that's 6 qts/change so ~$100/change each. Sportwagen costs here are meaningless really, the car needs great oil that can stay in-grade with the track time. For the Atlas is on the FPC Liquimoly 5K change regimen so those are "free" but include a bit of return shipping so call it $40/year for 2x changes. If I do HPL, I'm at $100 b/c I'll do 2x the OCI so $60 more. It's basically a nothing burger in the scheme of auto maintenance/repair costs. I started using HPL as well in my W8, that's a 9qt change so ~$145 and I'm doing it every other year/~8K miles so $72 a year, again...nothing burger in reality vs. the free annual I'd do with FCP's LM kits for this car at $~20 return shipping cost. It does cost more for me b/c I'm not doing Wallyworld changes/using the FCP LRG deal but I just don't see this as a giant cost unless you want to do unnecessarily short OCIs then for sure, just buy whatever name-brand (or ST!) and send it.

 

[ripcord]

The math on my 3 vehicles:

I buy 4 gal of HPL Euro 5W40 at a time, with the 15% BITOG discount, that's ~$240 delivered or ~$15/qt. For my Sportwagen and Atlas, that's 6 qts/change so ~$100/change each. Sportwagen costs here are meaningless really, the car needs great oil that can stay in-grade with the track time. For the Atlas is on the FPC Liquimoly 5K change regimen so those are "free" but include a bit of return shipping so call it $40/year for 2x changes. If I do HPL, I'm at $100 b/c I'll do 2x the OCI so $60 more. It's basically a nothing burger in the scheme of auto maintenance/repair costs. I started using HPL as well in my W8, that's a 9qt change so ~$145 and I'm doing it every other year/~8K miles so $72 a year, again...nothing burger in reality vs. the free annual I'd do with FCP's LM kits for this car at $~20 return shipping cost. It does cost more for me b/c I'm not doing Wallyworld changes/using the FCP LRG deal but I just don't see this as a giant cost unless you want to do unnecessarily short OCIs then for sure, just buy whatever name-brand (or ST!) and send it.

Your use case is great for extra premium oils. Boutique oil for boutique cars that get flogged heavily.

 

[4WD]

The math on my 3 vehicles:

I buy 4 gal of HPL Euro 5W40 at a time, with the 15% BITOG discount, that's ~$240 delivered or ~$15/qt. For my Sportwagen and Atlas, that's 6 qts/change so ~$100/change each. Sportwagen costs here are meaningless really, the car needs great oil that can stay in-grade with the track time. For the Atlas is on the FPC Liquimoly 5K change regimen so those are "free" but include a bit of return shipping so call it $40/year for 2x changes. If I do HPL, I'm at $100 b/c I'll do 2x the OCI so $60 more. It's basically a nothing burger in the scheme of auto maintenance/repair costs. I started using HPL as well in my W8, that's a 9qt change so ~$145 and I'm doing it every other year/~8K miles so $72 a year, again...nothing burger in reality vs. the free annual I'd do with FCP's LM kits for this car at $~20 return shipping cost. It does cost more for me b/c I'm not doing Wallyworld changes/using the FCP LRG deal but I just don't see this as a giant cost unless you want to do unnecessarily short OCIs then for sure, just buy whatever name-brand (or ST!) and send it.

View attachment 275301

You Okay?

 

[TiGeo]

Yes why?

 

[cammyfive79]

I don't have the mental bandwidth or desire to run cost benefit analysis and sketches on a notepad of how many dollars and cents I gain or lose with the purchase of something I do twice a year at most with my lower mileage driving habits. I mean if my life dramatically changes and it really gets that tight for me, I'll get a hair cut every 4 weeks instead of 2 or skip the drive thru coffee trailer line once a week. It's the same reason I don't jump through a million hoops to redeem and then obsessively track a $10 rebate that takes 6-8 weeks to process; if I don't get it at POS then it's not going to affect my purchasing decision anyway.

I say all that as a 2 car household consumer.....not a multi-million dollar commercial fleet owner where these decisions would make huge differences.

 

[fdcg27]

This is frankly a big part of it.

I don't think you can justify the expensive of niche oils purely on UOAs are similar measures of "performance."

At some point it become an intangible "I want the very best that exists, and I can afford to indulge it."

There are those who strictly shop price and there are those who value product quality along with good product support.
You won't get anyone knowledgeable on the phone if you have serious questions to ask with Valvoline, SOPUS or even M1.
With HPL, you can and will.

 

[RazorsEdge]

My money and I spend it how I please
Right now I'm running Schaeffer's oil.

Some of us eat good food,others eat junk food. In the end of the day, it's all personal choices.

 

[mr_boring]

You Okay?

He probably found one of them mushroom rocks and ate it. You know how those gellolgist be licking them rocks.

He digs though the ditches and burns though the witches as he slams in the back of his Sportwagensula!

 

[4WD]

He probably found one of them mushroom rocks and ate it. You know how those gellolgist be licking them rocks.

He digs though the ditches and burns though the witches as he slams in the back of his Sportwagensula!

Yeah, allot can go wrong with a sedimentary lifestyle

 

[tired]

I would posit with a just a bit of planning around sales, it's possible for a DIY guy to run boutique less expensively than pulling into a lube shop and ordering " full synthetic".

I've taken this into consideration too. I don't know if AMSOIL or HPL ever have sales, but that would help.

 

[Panda87]

I've taken this into consideration too. I don't know if AMSOIL or HPL ever have sales, but that would help.

Code BITOG15 is still honored by HPL. Just bought a case of V-Twin 20W-50 with it by getting ahold of Mary Jane. She’s awesome!

 

[Panda87]

I don't have the mental bandwidth or desire to run cost benefit analysis and sketches on a notepad of how many dollars and cents I gain or lose with the purchase of something I do twice a year at most with my lower mileage driving habits. I mean if my life dramatically changes and it really gets that tight for me, I'll get a hair cut every 4 weeks instead of 2 or skip the drive thru coffee trailer line once a week. It's the same reason I don't jump through a million hoops to redeem and then obsessively track a $10 rebate that takes 6-8 weeks to process; if I don't get it at POS then it's not going to affect my purchasing decision anyway.

I say all that as a 2 car household consumer.....not a multi-million dollar commercial fleet owner where these decisions would make huge differences.

Harley wants me to change my oil and filter every 5k miles. Which would have me changing my oil and filter 5 times a year! I can do 30k on HPL and a filter change every 10k. I’m already spending $500 per set of tires annually. The cost savings of the HPL helps offset my tire costs.

Edit: I buzz my own head. Haircuts are essentially free. I grind my own beans and use a percolator that makes great coffee. I’m saving money all over the place! Just…ignore the fact that I have 4 kids.

 

[tired]

The math on my 3 vehicles:

I buy 4 gal of HPL Euro 5W40 at a time, with the 15% BITOG discount, that's ~$240 delivered or ~$15/qt. For my Sportwagen and Atlas, that's 6 qts/change so ~$100/change each. Sportwagen costs here are meaningless really, the car needs great oil that can stay in-grade with the track time. For the Atlas is on the FPC Liquimoly 5K change regimen so those are "free" but include a bit of return shipping so call it $40/year for 2x changes. If I do HPL, I'm at $100 b/c I'll do 2x the OCI so $60 more. It's basically a nothing burger in the scheme of auto maintenance/repair costs. I started using HPL as well in my W8, that's a 9qt change so ~$145 and I'm doing it every other year/~8K miles so $72 a year, again...nothing burger in reality vs. the free annual I'd do with FCP's LM kits for this car at $~20 return shipping cost. It does cost more for me b/c I'm not doing Wallyworld changes/using the FCP LRG deal but I just don't see this as a giant cost unless you want to do unnecessarily short OCIs then for sure, just buy whatever name-brand (or ST!) and send it.

View attachment 275301

So I would be the guy doing 3-5k OCIs on HPL because I think I need to change more often due to all my short tripping (multiple daily 2-4 mi trips a day) in the winter with basically no highway driving at all. Basically driving at 40 mph or less all winter.

If I could safely do one OCI a year with HPL (I drive less than 7000-8000 miles a year on that car) and have equivalent or better protection than with VRP/M1 that would be awesome.

 

[Panda87]

So I would be the guy doing 3-5k OCIs on HPL because I think I need to change more often due to all my short tripping (multiple daily 2-4 mi trips a day) in the winter with basically no highway driving at all. Basically driving at 40 mph or less all winter.

If I could safely do one OCI a year with HPL (I drive less than 7000-8000 miles a year on that car) and have equivalent or better protection than with VRP/M1 that would be awesome.

You can and would likely be able to exceed that by a large margin.