VRP then moving on to boutique (HPL/Amsoil/Redline/etc) - why?

[cammyfive79]

Lest I be accused of not using the Search feature, I only saw (and did indeed read) threads comparing VRP to boutiques but not in the way I had a question about....

It appears, for the time being, that VRP is pretty unique in the $30-ish Walmart oil selections at least in cleaning stubborn ring deposits and stopping/mitigating oil consumption on vehicles that do so. @Glenda W. had a great thread recently that showed VRP cleaning/stopping the majority of oil consumption on a vehicle that had used some name brand and well regarded off the shelf oils all its life up until the switch to VRP. In my layperson reading here, the biggest causes of oil consumption on vehicles posted here is some sort of ring deposits. No doubt there are other reasons, but ring deposits seem to be a common theme. Assuming one uses VRP for the long haul at normie 5K intervals, could one hypothesize that the main reason an engine could degrade and consume large quantities of oil be mitigated?

Which brings me to the question rattling around in my head.....

If the above is true, what benefits outside of superior drain intervals would boutiques offer over VRP? I've read that boutiques and certain certifications for oil (Euros in particular) demand a certain add pack to keep pistons and such clean, wouldn't the anecdotal evidence we see plenty of here show that VRP excels at that? Maybe the boutiques - HPL in particular as that is the brand I've engaged with the most - use super high grade base oils of PAO/ANs/Esters that are certainly purer than VRP base oils, but how would those contribute to a cleaner/longer running engine when VRP *seems* to keep things as clean?

I am in awe of the super long drain intervals HPL and others can allow on many cars - reading the 25-30K OCIs on a members Corolla and another's Durango is daunting in a good way - so I get that doing the math may mean that they both equal out in cost over the long haul. But let's assume that both (a boutique and VRP) are the same cost or at least a few bucks within each other and you are NOT doing super long drain intervals....what long term benefits/superior protection (if any) would a boutique offer?

*I know we don't have long term data on VRP so this is more of an educated guessing thought. I'm also a fan of boutiques as they are owned by small American businesses which I go out of my way to support even if markedly more expensive.

 

[Brian123]

2024 Mazda CX-90 Preferred Plus 3.3L I-6 Turbo (HPL Premium PCO 0W20 & OEM Filter)
2014 Acura TSX 2.4L (Valvoline Restore&Protect 5W30 & OEM Filter)

It seems like you are using both Oil's! LOL

Seems like you can do a test with 1 Car using VRP and the other with HPL and report back!

 

[Glenda W.]

IMO like you said the boutiques are capable of longer drains. I’m sure they are also more shear stable, lower Noack, resist oxidation better etc. But for a 5k oci and being available at Wally for under $30 R&P is hard to beat.

Something else to consider, R&P is not suitable for euro approvals.

 

[Brian123]

IMO like you said the boutiques are capable of longer drains. I’m sure they are also more shear stable, lower Noack, resist oxidation better etc. But for a 5k oci and being available at Wally for under $30 R&P is hard to beat.

Something else to consider, R&P is not suitable for euro approvals.

Approvals are what they are, I think we can both agree that R&P is probably a 5000-mile OCI Oil type of Oil. So, if you have a car that is supposed to have a Euro Oil and you want to use VRP, just keep the OCI to 4000 or 5000 miles. So, if you have a Euro car that has issues, use VRP and then decide if you want to go back to the Euro Specked Oil.

 

[cammyfive79]

2024 Mazda CX-90 Preferred Plus 3.3L I-6 Turbo (HPL Premium PCO 0W20 & OEM Filter)
2014 Acura TSX 2.4L (Valvoline Restore&Protect 5W30 & OEM Filter)

It seems like you are using both Oil's! LOL

Seems like you can do a test with 1 Car using VRP and the other with HPL and report back!

Haha, indeed. Yeah, I bought the Acura a few months ago with 25K on in so I figured a safe/inexpensive bet would be to do the VRP routine while I consider moving to HPL. On the CX-90 (my wife's car) it goes in for it's 20K service tomorrow and I'm sending the HPL sample for UOA. I have a spidey sense that it is a fuel diluter, so if it is, no more HPL and I'll just switch to VRP since it's quite a bit cheaper and will be fine for 5K OCI; the car has no spec other than "0W-20 recommended" with no other details.

 

[cammyfive79]

IMO like you said the boutiques are capable of longer drains. I’m sure they are also more shear stable, lower Noack, resist oxidation better etc. But for a 5k oci and being available at Wally for under $30 R&P is hard to beat.

Something else to consider, R&P is not suitable for euro approvals.

Okay, yes, you're getting at what I'm talking about and was in the back of my head - resists oxidation, sheer stable, etc. I wonder how much those factors alone lead to major engine issues like massive consumption.

To be very simplistic, aren't Euro approvals mostly be based on strict cleanliness for deposits etc?

 

[cammyfive79]

Approvals are what they are, I think we can both agree that R&P is probably a 5000-mile OCI Oil type of Oil. So, if you have a car that is supposed to have a Euro Oil and you want to use VRP, just keep the OCI to 4000 or 5000 miles. So, if you have a Euro car that has issues, use VRP and then decide if you want to go back to the Euro Specked Oil.

I'm wondering (aloud) why you would want to go back to a Euro approved oil if that oil was the one that caused the issue and VRP "fixed" it.

 

[Glenda W.]

Okay, yes, you're getting at what I'm talking about and was in the back of my head - resists oxidation, sheer stable, etc. I wonder how much those factors alone lead to major engine issues like massive consumption.

To be very simplistic, aren't Euro approvals mostly be based on strict cleanliness for deposits etc?

Strict cleanliness and wear control etc. I’m not a euro expert but I believe some approvals even involve track time. A torture test so to speak.

API oils seem to focus on fuel economy and lspi.

 

[Bill7]

IMO like you said the boutiques are capable of longer drains. I’m sure they are also more shear stable, lower Noack, resist oxidation better etc. But for a 5k oci and being available at Wally for under $30 R&P is hard to beat.

Something else to consider, R&P is not suitable for euro approvals.

Yes, Valvoline R&P can be a good 5k oil for all of us.

The only concern I have about Valvoline Restore & Protect, is it doesn't come in a high mileage formula.
I prefer high mileage oil to treat the oil seals which can help prevent them from leaking and causing large repair bills to fix the oil leaks
on the garage floor or new driveway.

Thats why I was hoping 1 quart HPL EC 30 + 3.5 quarts any high mileage full synthetic would clean equally as well as Valvoline R&P. Also, the HPL EC30 has a large dose of Ester which will act like a high mileage oil to swell the oil seals.

 

[Glenda W.]

Yes, Valvoline R&P can be a good 5k oil for all of us.

The only concern I have about Valvoline Restore & Protect, is it doesn't come in a high mileage formula.
I prefer high mileage oil to treat the oil seals which can help prevent them from leaking and causing large repair bills to fix the oil leaks
on the garage floor or new driveway.

Thats why I was hoping 1 quart HPL EC 30 + 3.5 quarts any high mileage full synthetic would clean equally as well as Valvoline R&P. Also, the HPL EC30 has a large dose of Ester which will act like a high mileage oil to swell the oil seals.

It would be interesting to run your blend in an oil burner to test it. From what I understand the HPL EC is a “pretreatment” to HPL oil which cleans even better.

 

[Bill7]

It would be interesting to run your blend in an oil burner to test it. From what I understand the HPL EC is a “pretreatment” to HPL oil which cleans even better.

I was considering permanently using 3.5 quarts Super Tech HMFS 5W-30 + 1 quart HPL EC30 as a low cost way to perpetually keep the internals clean and also treat the oil seals.

 

[melk]

I’ve posted about this elsewhere but I am seriously considering running VRP + EC and can’t really come up with any reason not to, other than the “unknowns” since VRP secret sauce is still a mystery and “possibly” could cause some sort of clash with the high-ester EC.

 

[JAG]

In my opinion, VRP’s secret additive removes much of the need for using ester-containing motor oils. It does it at a much lower cost. I think that most oils that are used too long fail first in the deposit forming category, not due too high of an acid number or too low of a TBN, or anything else. The praised MB 229.52, VW 504 oils also have low TBN. I think many underestimate the upper limit of VRP’s OCI capabilities. I also think that some people who think they should use it to clean, then switch to other oils are not making the best choice. There are some valid reasons to do it though, such as desiring viscosity grade that VRP is not made in or difficulty acquiring it.

 

[Glenda W.]

In my opinion, VRP’s secret additive removes much of the need for using ester-containing motor oils. It does it at a much lower cost. I think that most oils that are used too long fail first in the deposit forming category, not due too high of an acid number or too low of a TBN, or anything else. The praised MB 229.52, VW 504 oils also have low TBN. I think many underestimate the upper limit of VRP’s OCI capabilities. I also think that some people who think they should use it to clean, then switch to other oils are not making the best choice. There are some valid reasons to do it though, such as desiring viscosity grade that VRP is not made in or difficulty acquiring it.

In my case the switch from R&P is experimental and a little personal curiosity. I have an oil burner, lets have fun with it and test some oils!!

On a side note I’m in the middle of an ESP 0w30 varnish clean up test on a vehicle that was run on cheap synthetic it’s whole life. Results with pics by the end of the year!!

 

[ltslimjim]

IMO like you said the boutiques are capable of longer drains. I’m sure they are also more shear stable, lower Noack, resist oxidation better etc. But for a 5k oci and being available at Wally for under $30 R&P is hard to beat.

Something else to consider, R&P is not suitable for euro approvals.

Good points.

If an engine is in need of cleaning, VRP sure seems to be the best option in that context and perhaps in niche situations where an engine family is known to notoriously develop oil consumption; perhaps as in your own case.

Once that is squared away though or I have a clean engine not prone to the piston deposits, I see no need to use it over an oil formulated for extended use with zero question to it being a superior product for extended intervals. Engine cleaning in shorter intervals are one thing. Can it run 15,000? Is it suitable for vehicles requiring certain specs this oil doesn’t have, etc?

 

[Glenda W.]

Good points.

If an engine is in need of cleaning, VRP sure seems to be the best option in that context and perhaps in niche situations where an engine family is known to notoriously develop oil consumption; perhaps as in your own case.

Once that is squared away though or I have a clean engine not prone to the piston deposits, I see no need to use it over an oil formulated for extended use with zero question to it being a superior product for extended intervals. Engine cleaning in shorter intervals are one thing. Can it run 15,000? Is it suitable for vehicles requiring certain specs this oil doesn’t have, etc?

Exactly. I sure wouldn’t run R&P in a Porsche at the track.

 

[Brian123]

I'm wondering (aloud) why you would want to go back to a Euro approved oil if that oil was the one that caused the issue and VRP "fixed" it.

We cannot blame the Oil for the issue unless it was run to long. It can also be the driving habits where someone runs an oil too long. If someone uses a good synthetic oil, I will not name names, and they follow what is in the Owner's Manual or go by the OLM, there should not be issues. This is not always the case; the reason I said to go back to the oil you were using was just me being diplomatic.

 

[Intelligent Molecule]

Exactly. I sure wouldn’t run R&P in a Porsche at the track.

But for the 99.99% percent of folks who don't run Porsche's (or similar rich boy vehicles) at the track, it seems to be the superior product under normal and entirely cost effective circumstances.

On a personal note, I'm into my second run of VRP in my high mileage Sienna, and oil burning seems to have stopped. Not slowed, but stopped. I lthink I'll pass on the high priced stuff and just stick with what actually works at $25 after rebate.

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

I’ve posted about this elsewhere but I am seriously considering running VRP + EC and can’t really come up with any reason not to, other than the “unknowns” since VRP secret sauce is still a mystery and “possibly” could cause some sort of clash with the high-ester EC.

I wouldn’t even bother with EC. How much is a quart? You can get a 5 qt jug of vrp for $30 which is a way better value as you can do an entire oil change with that $30

 

[MVAR]

I'm more curious about VRP's impact on intake valve deposits. HPL uses esters to help control those deposits. Will whatever VRP uses do something similar through the PCV system? I only have one TGDI vehicle at this time but have had a previous Mazdaspeed6 that coked up the EGR & intake valves every 40k miles. HPL seems to be good at keeping those deposits at bay.