HPL Piston Photo

[Japanese]

You think Valvoline is manipulating them? You doubt their accuracy? Or what?

I don't think you're ever going to get someone to tear down their engine and not clean out the piston ring grooves while they're there.

I cannot say Valvoline manipulated anything. I just said that the comparison is not fair. Also I don't believe marketing because I work in marketing for a long time.

If I'm a mechanic with a shop and have some side high mileage car I would do before and after Valvoline Restore and Protect and HPL pictures of the pistons.

 

[ltslimjim]

Valid point, but it still shows that HPL couldn't do in 50k what Valvoline Restore and Protect can do in 4k. Even if it took Valvoline Restore and Protect 20k (4x 5k OCIs), it takes them back to fully clean.

This is still subjective because we compare real world HPL results - those piston pictures above with Valvoline Restore and Protect marketing images on the net.

If somebody take real world scenario before and after pictures after certain miles with Valvoline Restore and Protect - then the comparison would be fair enough with the HPL images above.

I think you're both making valid points.

One challenge is how clean is "good enough" for most engines vs an actual issue with the rings/grooves?

And, just because Valvoline Restore and Protect has the capability to restore to factory clean, does that mean it always does so in every engine it's used for the prescribed minimum?

I don't doubt it works. It's a question of comparisons and what we're actually comparing.

Without before pictures (a control), on the HPL piston after 50k, it's mostly trying an educated guess. I'd be very happy if I were the OP with those results.

Now, consider if HPL was used from new and still had these results? That's a different context and discussion. It's difficult to fairly and accurately compare 2 results without including more information. I don't think we can 100% imply that every use case of Valvoline Restore and Protect will be like their marketed in lab result photos and the rate of cleanup to a real world engine. In isolation vs compare to every piston you could take out of any given engine after swapping to Valvoline Restore and Protect. Could heavily depend on the state at time of conversion and how quickly the mileage racks up. In the tests, don't they typically run the mileage up very quickly? Just one potential factor when attempting to compare results without control of the processes.

 

[mt23]

You think Valvoline is manipulating them? You doubt their accuracy? Or what?

I don't think you're ever going to get someone to tear down their engine and not clean out the piston ring grooves while they're there.

The mental gymnastics people will do to not believe the results with this product are impressive sometimes. It would be one thing if the real world results didn't back this up, but we have countless success stories here of it working as advertised.

This is still subjective because we compare real world HPL results - those piston pictures above with Valvoline Restore and Protect marketing images on the net.

If somebody take real world scenario before and after pictures after certain miles with Valvoline Restore and Protect - then the comparison would be fair enough with the HPL images above.

I posted these in the giant Valvoline Restore and Protect thread a few months ago. This is a 2007 Forester 2.5 non turbo ej253 with about 110k at the time. It was a bit neglected and consuming lots of oil. This is interval 2 of Valvoline Restore and Protect while doing timing belt service I removed the wrist pin access plugs for cylinders 1 and 2. Some subaru EJ engines give enough view up the side of the piston to see the oil ring from the wrist pin access plug. Piston from another ej253 engine for reference in hand.

 

[Japanese]

You think Valvoline is manipulating them? You doubt their accuracy? Or what?

One challenge is how clean is "good enough" for most engines vs an actual issue with the rings/grooves?

We don't know how many miles has the Valvoline engine and what oil it was driven with whose pistons are used in the marketing images.

If an engine reduces or eliminates its oil consumption after being driven with Valvoline Restore and Protect or HPL - that's a good enough cleaning. We don't need pictures - we have already big positive results.

That's what people report here, they don't post pistons pictures for reasons mentioned above - they are not mechanics. They say their oil consumption when down or was eliminated.

 

[mr_boring]

Right on. Looks better than bad for sure.

it's possible 2 products can have great results.

But we have to make it a "this one is better because (mostly because I like it better) X"

Here's the thing, we've now seen pics of internals that lived on quality oil that still looked fairly ugly. In the words of someone who said it first, "sometimes it don't be like that but sometimes it do"

 

[Japanese]

This is interval 2 of Valvoline Restore and Protect while doing timing belt service I removed the wrist pin access plugs for cylinders 1 and 2.

What are we comparing - partially visible pistons (only the first land before the oil ring is visible) vs relatively clean piston from another engine.
Is that a fair comparison?

Fair comparison would be to take pictures of the same pistons (possibly the same part of the pistons too) before and after 4 OCI with Valvoline Restore and Protect.

 

[tired]

I posted these in the giant Valvoline Restore and Protect thread a few months ago. This is a 2007 Forester 2.5 non turbo ej253 with about 110k at the time. It was a bit neglected and consuming lots of oil. This is interval 2 of Valvoline Restore and Protect while doing timing belt service I removed the wrist pin access plugs for cylinders 1 and 2. Some subaru EJ engines give enough view up the side of the piston to see the oil ring from the wrist pin access plug. Piston from another ej253 engine for reference in hand.

View attachment 314862

View attachment 314863

View attachment 314864

Thanks for posting these. I'm not quite oriented well enough to know what I'm looking at in the first two.

 

[mt23]

What are we comparing - partially visible pistons (only the first land before the oil ring is visible) vs relatively clean piston from another engine.
Is that a fair comparison?

Fair comparison would be to take pictures of the same pistons (possibly the same part of the pistons too) before and after 4 OCI with Valvoline Restore and Protect.

Partially visible pistons for cylinder 1 and 2. Bottom land, bottom oil scraper rail, the spring section of the oil ring and top rail (barely) of oil ring are visible.

Cylinder 1 you can see bottom and top rails of oil ring are contacting the cylinder wall. They are clean. The middle section of the ring is jam packed with carbon.

Cylinder 2 you cant exactly make out the top oil ring rail but the bottom rail and middle section are full of carbon and seized. The bottom rail is not contacting the cylinder wall and is covered in carbon at the face of the rail.

The piston out of engine is to give an idea the section you can see in car.

 

[mt23]

When I see the car again after 4 Valvoline Restore and Protect changes i will be able to take comparison photos of mid Valvoline Restore and Protect interval 2 and after. You can see the blotches of cleanliness on these pistons during interval 2. not so much of a transition of cleanliness but patches of cleanliness.

 

[Japanese]

Partially visible pistons for cylinder 1 and 2. Bottom land, bottom oil scraper rail, the spring section of the oil ring and top rail (barely) of oil ring are visible.

Thanks, I got it now. Although, the oil ring is barely visible.

Can you roll the engine and bring the pistons a bit lower so we can see the 3 rings and possibly the top of the piston?

 

[tired]

Partially visible pistons for cylinder 1 and 2. Bottom land, bottom oil scraper rail, the spring section of the oil ring and top rail (barely) of oil ring are visible.

Cylinder 1 you can see bottom and top rails of oil ring are contacting the cylinder wall. They are clean. The middle section of the ring is jam packed with carbon.

Cylinder 2 you cant exactly make out the top oil ring rail but the bottom rail and middle section are full of carbon and seized. The bottom rail is not contacting the cylinder wall and is covered in carbon at the face of the rail.

The piston out of engine is to give an idea the section you can see in car.

Thank you. I see now. These are fantastic images for future comparison. Interested to see how it improves.

 

[mt23]

Thanks, I got it now. Although, the oil ring is barely visible.

Can you roll the engine and bring the pistons a bit lower so we can see the 3 rings and possibly the top of the piston?

That's as low as the pistons can go for the wrist pin access hole viewpoint. More visibility would be better ideally but wrist pin access plug is minimally invasive when the timing components are off

 

[D1dad]

I still think Valvoline is hinting at something in this pic - perhaps what they are doing with Valvoline Restore and Protect is cheap enough to do it in other lubes at the request of Supply Chain …

View attachment 314784

That’s all I ran from new to 80k in an 18 rogue. I’ve used HPL, schaeffers and now hpl and my engine is absolutely pristine. Not a spec of carbon in the filter after using hpl. Of course I never went past 5k regardless of what oil I used.

 

[4wd]

That’s all I ran from new to 80k in an 18 rogue. I’ve used HPL, schaeffers and now hpl and my engine is absolutely pristine. Not a spec of carbon in the filter after using hpl. Of course I never went past 5k regardless of what oil I used.

I had the same results with EC30 and Valvoline Restore and Protect - cut allot of pristine filters … Motor had mostly Mobil 1 …
Think good oils work in good motors - some motors not so much …

 

[D1dad]

That’s all I ran from new to 80k in an 18 rogue. I’ve used HPL, schaeffers and now hpl and my engine is absolutely pristine. Not a spec of carbon in the filter after using hpl. Of course I never went past 5k regardless of what oil I used.

That’s should have read HPS then schaeffers and now hpl. Maxlife 0-20 was solely used for the 1st 80k.

 

[dkryan]

That’s all I ran from new to 80k in an 18 rogue. I’ve used HPL, schaeffers and now hpl and my engine is absolutely pristine. Not a spec of carbon in the filter after using hpl. Of course I never went past 5k regardless of what oil I used.

With those bolded facts, one would expect nothing less than pristine.

Thanks for posting.

 

[dkryan]

With those bolded facts, one would expect nothing less than pristine.

Thanks for posting.

Well, based on your clarification as to what was in the crankcase for the first 80k miles………never mind!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

You think Valvoline is manipulating them? You doubt their accuracy? Or what?

I don't think you're ever going to get someone to tear down their engine and not clean out the piston ring grooves while they're there.

The mental gymnastics people will do to not believe the results with this product are impressive sometimes. It would be one thing if the real world results didn't back this up, but we have countless success stories here of it working as advertised.

I think just what I said before… a Boxer is NOT 100% comparable to a V- or straight engine as far as oil contact on pistons. I highly doubt Valvoline has tested any pistons from a Subaru, so, it’s you that’s doing all the mental gymnastics to assume Valvoline Restore and Protect > HPL at this point. The only data point we have atm is a respectable if not perfect result from HPL.

By no means am I saying for sure either that HPL > Valvoline Restore and Protect, but that the only data point we have right now says HPL did a fine job.

 

[CleanSump]

BITOG = 34 people report x oil stopped their oil burning = that's just anecdotes and don't count.
BITOG = 2 people report x oil didn't do squat for me = condemn it 'cause it' no good
I'm not laughing out loud, but, hey, I am amused.

 

[tired]

I still think Valvoline is hinting at something in this pic - perhaps what they are doing with Valvoline Restore and Protect is cheap enough to do it in other lubes at the request of Supply Chain …

View attachment 314784

Is this a new label?