yeah, yeah don't remind me of grey hair. i learned FORTRAN on PUNCH CARDS.
Engineers?
- Thread starter Winston
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I'll second that. My sixteen-month internship, working directly under a Professional Engineer, is the best work experience I've had.
FWIW, I have been a corporate headhunter for engineers in the automotive industry for the past 28 years so I have personally interviewed over 10,000 engineers in my career. I can say that most are hands on and very intelligent. Lot's of them are gear heads and do extensive engine building that is way beyond my capabilities. Some are very narrow focused and most are relatively introverted. But, It is easy to see why they are sought after by corporations as they are excellent problem solvers because of their analytical nature. I rate them very highly.
BTW, I am not an engineer but my educational background is in business and statistics so I can relate to engineers easily.
BTW, I am not an engineer but my educational background is in business and statistics so I can relate to engineers easily.
Funny. Fortran (WATFIV) and punch cards didn't give me gray hair. Just made it fall out early.
Oh, man! What a memory you brought up! **I** learned Fortran on punch cards, too. And the post about pouring metals as an apprentice being motivation for finishing school took me right back to sitting on a frozen ramp at the Lubbock, TX airport, breaking the ice off the tailwheel of a DC3 so I could repair the flat tire! The plane wouldn't fit in our small hangar so it was an outside job. That tire was as hard as a brick. My grades improved after that.....
Was it this guy?
Pretty lofty group of folks here. First time I've seen such expression of credentials by so many folks, too. As a mere pothole repairman on the information superhighway, I must say, I'm impressed by the depth of education and qualifications the contestants here are in possession of. As I've suspected and declared many times, some of you have indeed forgotten more of this stuff than most here will ever know. Some of you can even spell, but the syntax is a little suspect.
I'm kidding, of course. I'm also one to talk
. It gets pretty entertaining sometimes reading the ravings of folks at the other boards of similar aspiration about the "idiots" at BOTOG. Even the laymen here are highly informed even if not educated in to field. Scary, man, scary!
And I agree with (this is gonna hurt) 427, too. I hold lots of Cisco certifications, Microsoft certifications and numerous certificates from telecom and voicemail manufacturers on their gear, many of these with "engineer" in the title. And while these certifications earn me a pretty sweet living way out of proportion to the effort expended in acquiring them, in terms of the grander accomplishment, folks that are formally educated in the disciplines of engineering are the only true engineers. Anything short of that is about conferring a title upon the (relatively easy) acquisition of a very narrow swath of knowledge.
Anyone that disputes that is smokin' something
I'm kidding, of course. I'm also one to talk
And I agree with (this is gonna hurt) 427, too. I hold lots of Cisco certifications, Microsoft certifications and numerous certificates from telecom and voicemail manufacturers on their gear, many of these with "engineer" in the title. And while these certifications earn me a pretty sweet living way out of proportion to the effort expended in acquiring them, in terms of the grander accomplishment, folks that are formally educated in the disciplines of engineering are the only true engineers. Anything short of that is about conferring a title upon the (relatively easy) acquisition of a very narrow swath of knowledge.
Anyone that disputes that is smokin' something
I'm a degreed Engineer, too. Worked as one for about 10 years and now have worked in a different field for 10 years. Most engineers that I knew and worked with were not hands-on. Myself, I've been wrenching on cars/bikes since about 14 and consider myself a decent mechanic. Engineers, like most occupations, include folks from all walks of life.
JHZR2
Staff member
Im an advanced-degree (Master's) holding chemical engineer. I am working and getting my Ph.D at the same time. I do state of the art fuel procesing and similar work for the Navy. It amazes me how people that we work with/fund can be really smart, come up with top notch designs, materials, catalysts, models, etc., but then when it comes to getting dirty, bending metal, or applying theory or computer work to real stuations, they don't have a clue...
IMO, and particularly where you go to school, too much reliance on computers and theory is emphasized in today's education. I went to a top 10 ChE school, and while we got a decent mix, we were only mid way, getting more hands on, dirty, aplication experience than some, but a lot less than others. For me, it was doing an undergraduate and master's thesis (currently working on the PhD research) that really got the understanding of the way things really worked... Many go in blind, take a long time to learn that sort of stuff, and never are able to really see the 'big picture' when it comes to the reality of executing something viable and real.
And that comes from someone fully in the R&D world!
JMH
IMO, and particularly where you go to school, too much reliance on computers and theory is emphasized in today's education. I went to a top 10 ChE school, and while we got a decent mix, we were only mid way, getting more hands on, dirty, aplication experience than some, but a lot less than others. For me, it was doing an undergraduate and master's thesis (currently working on the PhD research) that really got the understanding of the way things really worked... Many go in blind, take a long time to learn that sort of stuff, and never are able to really see the 'big picture' when it comes to the reality of executing something viable and real.
And that comes from someone fully in the R&D world!
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Maybe in Sunnyvale, but here in the Philadelphia suburbs, I have been able to do just that, at 26. Granted I had a very supportive family, come out of college with no debt, and had a decent amount of savings coming from college, but I still sit on most of those savings, and have been quite comfortable.
IMO, more of the disparty (besides CA housing prices) has to do with just what is being talked about... My 'TV' generation wants it now, doesnt want to wait, has no discipline, nd no real understanding of how things are and how things work... anything.
And as a result, they often dig themselves into holes.
JMH
Folks are in DEEP holes, and a lot of it expensive cars, car payments and all the carrying charges that come with them. They actually FALL for the car-as-truth-beauty-identity commercials. And then there are their credit cards. I have a shoebox full of bounced checks my theater customers in McMansions with a his and hers Bimmer in the drivway wrote to me that were under $500.00. Pathetic IDIOTS!
Tigrpal: "My son is in college, studying to become an engineer. I've always done my own car maintainence but he never joined me and never seemed interested.... What advice would any of you have for my son?"
About the car maintenance, keep plugging away. About his major, read the following Paul Craig Roberts column, then talk to him about whether getting that engineering degree is really in his best interest:
The death of US engineering
If your son gets that degree, he might as well start planning to move to China or India. There is little future for the profession here. Roberts said in another column (paraphrased), "How long will parents pay $100,000 for their child's engineering degree when the child will simply end up in a soup line after graduation?"
A few months back, we had discussions in the General forum about the relative worth of a college degree and of certain degrees in particular. It is starting to look as if engineering, scientific, mathematics, and IT degrees for American citizens are soon going to be nearly as worthless as art history and forestry degrees in the US job market. Steer him toward law instead; that will remain a good field until the lawyers start eating their own and suing one another.
About the car maintenance, keep plugging away. About his major, read the following Paul Craig Roberts column, then talk to him about whether getting that engineering degree is really in his best interest:
The death of US engineering
If your son gets that degree, he might as well start planning to move to China or India. There is little future for the profession here. Roberts said in another column (paraphrased), "How long will parents pay $100,000 for their child's engineering degree when the child will simply end up in a soup line after graduation?"
A few months back, we had discussions in the General forum about the relative worth of a college degree and of certain degrees in particular. It is starting to look as if engineering, scientific, mathematics, and IT degrees for American citizens are soon going to be nearly as worthless as art history and forestry degrees in the US job market. Steer him toward law instead; that will remain a good field until the lawyers start eating their own and suing one another.
There's a lot of truth in both that article and what you say. I've experienced it firsthand. I've done my best to cope with it by continually updating and expanding my education and experience into other fields. Although the return on investment (effort and funds) hasn't been as good as if one studied law or became a "money changer" or "professional BSer", it's what I like to do. If you want to become wealthy with little effort, the engineering profession is probably not the one you want to spend your money and effort on. But if your son enjoys it, it can be quite rewarding, and for some people, that's more important than money.
That said, with the Baby Boomer generation approaching retirement age, one would hope there job market for engineers will improve down the road if we can prevent them from moving all the technical jobs overseas.
Good for you son. Good for you-you've done a good job parenting.
Don't listen to the yahoos about engineering going "belly up" in the States. What particular discipline is he moving towards? Petroleum engineer-GREAT. Mechanical Engineer-VERY GOOD. Electrical Engineer-OK. Civil Engineer-GREAT.
Look at the building/construction/road improvements, etc taking place every day. Every one of these projects requires engineers and they can't farm out inspections and tests to some chinaman or indian overseas.
If your son ever does choose to move in another career direction, such as law, then his #@$%! in engineering is an excellent platform to do so.
Additionally, your son has shown an inate intelligence beyond any of us posters here in his natural aversion to turning a wrench. The kids potential is limitless!
Don't listen to the yahoos about engineering going "belly up" in the States. What particular discipline is he moving towards? Petroleum engineer-GREAT. Mechanical Engineer-VERY GOOD. Electrical Engineer-OK. Civil Engineer-GREAT.
Look at the building/construction/road improvements, etc taking place every day. Every one of these projects requires engineers and they can't farm out inspections and tests to some chinaman or indian overseas.
If your son ever does choose to move in another career direction, such as law, then his #@$%! in engineering is an excellent platform to do so.
Additionally, your son has shown an inate intelligence beyond any of us posters here in his natural aversion to turning a wrench. The kids potential is limitless!
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