Engineers?

[mpersell]

What led me to be anal about maintainance was a dislike of having to pay for replacement parts, systems, etc Being too broke as a kid taught me to repair my own cars as they needed it.

Being older, grumpier, and more lazy I have more of the work done but still do a lot of repairs and I keep cars longer than most of my family and neighbors. I still check oil about every other tank of fuel, check tire pressure, etc.

 

[tigrpal]

My son is in college, studying to become an engineer. I've always done my own car maintainence but he never joined me and never seemed interested. (We had an interesting discussion one night on oil viscosity, temperature, and pressure because he was taking a class called "Incompressible Flow.") What advice would any of you have for my son?

 

[SaturnIonVue]

We should all remember that the problem with engineers and all other professionals is that each and everyone of them was recruited from the human race prior to their education. I've never met a doctor, lawyer, or an Indian chief who didn't eventually display similar human characteristics as do butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers. Just about exactly like the rest of us. Couple that with the certain knowledge that exactly half of all members of their chosen profession graduated in the lower half of their class! With these perspectives in mind, neither they or we should take them too seriously at all times or about all things! The bottom line is that people are basically still human no matter how high their educational level.

I know several village idiots who never check their oil either.

 

[cheetahdriver]

the engineering schools bear some of the blame, but not all. remember how far engineering has come, and how specialized it has become. i am a BSME, PE, and have rebuilt gasoline, diesel (6.9 IH, and it was a #@$%!), and aircraft engines. i am only a mediocre wrench, i don't have the patience for some stuff, i work in burst mode, will not take breaks and will not quit when i am tired. works well for engineering/software, not so hot for aircraft. fortunately, i have a very good guy who comes along and fixes what i miss (points it out with great glee too).

best engineer i ever met (and this from a guy who doesn't admit ANYONE is smarter than him) is a true genius. has a MSEE, is a member of MENSA. but before you size him for a pocket protector, he worked in his father's machineshop from age 8, is a master (and i mean MASTER) machinist, a pilot, rides a BMW, rebuilds trolley cars as a hobby (for a museum), and is generally the best guy i know.

i know many of the other types as well. and i can blame the schools a bit, my wife is currently working on her MSChE, and i don't think her school is nearly as tough as when i had to walk in 4 ft of snow, uphill both directions....

 

[carock]

My advice to a student engineer is to go broad in your studies. Narrow specialization does not work well anymore. Next, study the job ads for engineers in your field. See what programs or tools they are asking for. Try to get experience with that software or tool. Once you get a job, you will find that companies pay you to operate a machine, work with a certain software package, or perform a specific process. The big problem is that only a few companies will want an operator for their tool, their software, or their process. When your industry takes a downturn, all the companies lay off at once. Now nobody wants your skills. Once you get your first job, you then need to look at how to get skills in a different industry for the inevitable time that your first industry tanks.What I have learned is that every engineer who thinks that they will not get laid off at an inopportune time is rudely awakened. Guess how I figured this out....After the 2001 DOT bomb meltdown in Silicon Valley EVERY engineering friend I had got laid off for at least one year.

 

[BigAl]

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One annoying problem we have when trying to hire young engineers is that they don't want to do any work?!?! They all want to be project managers?!?! Not that PM's dont do any work, but you would think they would want to do a little engineering for a while.

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I can't understand that either. I've been in the field for a whole lot of years, and have managed some pretty big projects . . . but thankfully I still get to be an inventor/designer/troubleshooter/draftsman much of the time. I went into engineering because I really liked the mechanical stuff. I'm reasonably good at it, so that's where I can make the strongest contribution. If I wanted to be a manager, I would have gone to business school.

 

[carock]

Yes, my wife works with engineers and she also thinks thety are autistic.

 

[carock]

You know what sucks? It is the pay. In the 1960's a Lockheed engineer in Sunnyvale could graduate from college, start work, buy a house, and buy a car. Today, a starting Lockheed engineer would have to make the choice between renting his own aprtment and driving a beater car, or sharing a room in a communal house and making a new car payment...Oh yes, and you can't afford a family on that new paycheck either.

 

[carock]

I think the best engineering education came in the days around WWII. In those days you went to work as an apprentice during the day, and took your courses in the evening. That is probably the best way to learn. More American companies would need to pony up at the colleges for apprentice programs coordinated with the scholastic work. Engineering requires learning with expensive equipment and the only people who can afford the equipment are the companies that earn with the equipment.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

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"Many of the young men and women comeing out of college today have no practical experince or knoldge!"

All they know how to do is drink beer like pigs, take all sorts of drugs, find dumb stupid women easy to sleep with....

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Most of them can't spell a lick either and actually find it easy to sleep with most women as long as they aren't too fat or too ugly and don't snore too much.

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There goes Pablo again, candy-coating..

 

[Shannow]

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I can't understand that either. I've been in the field for a whole lot of years, and have managed some pretty big projects . . . but thankfully I still get to be an inventor/designer/troubleshooter/draftsman much of the time. I went into engineering because I really liked the mechanical stuff. I'm reasonably good at it, so that's where I can make the strongest contribution. If I wanted to be a manager, I would have gone to business school.

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Exactly the point I keep trying to make to my managers, when they talk about my "step" into management (that they reckon I should have taken 3 years ago).

I've been an enginer for 16 years, and have 21 years to work.

I'd hate to think that the majority of my working life was management.

(Although the amount of acting that I do these days, I may as well be management...)

 

[427Z06]

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My name is John, I am an engineer...

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Not if you don't have a degree from a accredited university as a minimum. You're a wannabe engineer with a faux title.

 

[biomed_eng_2000]

Your son should get as much "theoretical education" out of his university as possible. At the same time he should get as much hands-on and "practical experience" through industry internships/jobs.

 

[Turbodriven]

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My name is John, I am an engineer...

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Not if you don't have a degree from a accredited university as a minimum. You're a wannabe engineer with a faux title.

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I don't agree. I have met many people in professions where they do a certain job that they have no formal qualification for, but do it better than the qualified person...in fact my college downstairs here is BSc but works as an accountant and does a fantastic job. Just because you don't have the qualification does not mean you are not up to the job or can you say you are the xxx that did that work...you just can't say you are a qualified so and so.... It’s not common anymore and its a big risk, since its proof that you have the minimum “understanding and ability” to do that job.

I normally find that AA is worth more than other things….attitude and aptitude…Ive worked with triple degree propeller heads that are just plain crud at the job that they are “qualified” for.
My mentor at a local bank; Dr Willy Celliers was refused entry into the PHD program due to the fact that he didn’t have a matric from school (he had a very poor upbringing), yet he had a electrical certificate, a BSc, BComm, Mcomm, Diploma in Education….so effectively he didn’t meet the “ academic profile”…go figure. He petitioned the entry board who straight out told him he would fail…(but let him do it)
He didn’t, he was the top student and finished 3 months before the other 7… 13 people dropped out….
Attitude and aptitude.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

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My name is John, I am an engineer...

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Not if you don't have a degree from a accredited university as a minimum. You're a wannabe engineer with a faux title.

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[Shannow]

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Attitude and aptitude.

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sorry, and this is only because I hate slogans.

I remember when we were recommissioning a power station 11 years ago, there were a bunch of us engineers still at work, and way after dark.

Engineer 1 (had English difficulties) "It's not whether you are a competent engineer, it's whether you are a confident engineer."

Those of us with better English laughed.

Next up had no English problems, and a Leitenant in the reserves. "And I know by looking at that constelation, that this direction is south."

"no ****, that is the false cross, and you are looking in way the wrong direction...you are too confident".

 

[TeeDub]

Winston,

By any chance are they software engineers? If so that really doesn't count...

A fair number of the engineers I work with are into working on cars, planes, boats, motorcycles, etc. Now the scientists - that's another story!

TD

 

[427Z06]

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My name is John, I am an engineer...

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Not if you don't have a degree from a accredited university as a minimum. You're a wannabe engineer with a faux title.

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I don't agree. I have met many people in professions where they do a certain job that they have no formal qualification for

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I don't want to get off an on rant here, but if what you propose was accepted universally it would lead to a Tower of Babel of qualifications. Earning a degree, is not the same as getting assigned a job title.

What if Joe Blow with a high school diploma gets a job that involves some technical work so the employer assigns a job title of "engineer". Does that mean from then on he's a qualified engineer? You want the same guy designing the bridges you drive on or the trusses holding up your roof? How about if they did the same thing in the medical profession? Should we skip the 4 yrs of Pre-Med, the MCATs, 4 years of Med School, 3-4 years of Internship, X years of specialization training and just let Joe Blow treat people after a two-week web-based course?

I'm not saying there are not a lot of very smart and brilliant people without degrees, but we have a system of qualifications to greatly improve the likelihood that the person who is hired to do the job is properly qualified.

If any self proclaimed engineer thinks he's as good or better than any degreed engineer, then he can prove it by simply going to an accredited university night/weekends (or on the web nowadays) and knocking that degree out in short order. Should be easy for him/her if they're half as smart as they think they are.

Getting a degree from an accredited university doesn't make you a more intelligent person nor is it an end onto itself. It also doesn't mean you'll have an immediate interest in car maintenance or how to best invest/spend your money. It simply equips you with a verified minimum set of tools to perform proficiently in a particular job, or in preparation to expand your horizons further whether educationally or professionally.

And while I'm on a rant...what's really a pathetic is to see older technician types rag on young engineers for their lack of practical knowledge. Well Duh! Of course many of them will suffer a lack of practical knowledge. Young engineers were spending years learning math, chemistry, physics and other specialized knowledge while the young tech learned the best way to get a rusted bolt off or troubleshoot the machine using the repair manual. Both the young engineer and the young technician need OJT to become proficient in any specialized job. Very, very few people have the capability to know everything. The limited time we have on earth pretty much guarantees that.

 

[427Z06]

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By any chance are they software engineers? If so that really doesn't count...

A fair number of the engineers I work with are into working on cars, planes, boats, motorcycles, etc. Now the scientists - that's another story!

TD

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Here's a dead giveaway we have a "engineer" by job title...notice how they zero in on someone else's job title.

 

[cheetahdriver]

to follow on 427Z06 very well thought out post (when i rant, the spittle on the keyboard causes misspellings), i have met a few "mustangs", that is engineers worthy of the title who learned it the hard way. they are less and less common these days, more so back the the early years. they are also all quite old, you don't learn real engineering from OJT in 4 years, or 8. the PE qualifications actually reflect this, as you can take the PE licensing exam without having a degree (or at least you could, haven't checked lately). i believe the substitution range was either 12 or 16 years of work under the direct supervision of a PE.

it is even my contention (endorsed by the state of texas) that a person isn't really an engineer until he passes the licensing exam. getting a degree from an ABET accredited school is a start (diploma mills don't count), but doesn't make you an engineer. someone who will go after the PE and meet the requirements and get through the bloody test (couldn't even remember where i had parked afterwards), gets the title.

still may not be able to change the oil, but that is a different skill set, eh?