Eating out, beware you all

[Doublehaul]

My above comment was rude and I apologize. It was meant to be tongue in cheek but it didn't come across that way.

I feel for the officers and their family's...always a tragedy when people die just trying to do their job.

 

[KingCake]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I'd keep a weapon to protect myself, but don't honestly know, in the real world, in the heat of the moment, if it would make sense to get into a gun battle with a bad guy in a crowded area. Great, I killed him; not so great, I accidentally killed someone else, too. Would that be involuntary manslaughter?

Exactly...think long and hard before engaging someone who is not threatening you or yours. I don't arm myself to get into a gunfight bc I am not capable of it. Obviously most non-leos that carry 15 rounds are not capable of it either. The thing is, I know it..some of these guys don't.


That basically sums up how I feel. It boils down to know your limitations. The John Wayne types give us all a bad name/fuel negative press.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

I love the insinuation that your average firearm owner has Jason Bourne abilities with firearms.



Wise comment in a thread about a malnourished old man who out gunned two cops.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp



I love the insinuation that your average firearm owner has Jason Bourne abilities with firearms.


I love your insinuation that I don't have the ability to defend myself properly. Nobody has Jason Bourne abilities and to use a fictitious character as a yardstick is ludicrous.

We don't hear about poorly trained citizens involved in unintentional shootings but we do hear about LE shootouts with 150 shots fired and 3 hits. Where did the other 147 bullets go? With national response time of 10 minutes and local response times up to 35 minutes it's only rational to be able to defend yourself.



Ability aside, Maryland is a [censored] tax state that will not actually issue a carry permit. At best you can get one for a specific area to carry for specific reasons.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Anybody who thinks LEOs go through intense training is very misinformed. The average gun enthusiast shoots more often and more accurately than your average LEO who views their gun like a carpenter views a screw driver.


Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.


Oh im sorry...I forgot about the excellent reputation that elected officials have at spending taxpayer money wisely and getting results...said no one ever

 

[Bladecutter]

I need to get this straight...

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
No, but an accurate shot to the head would have been the end of the perps deadly actions. I would have NEVER lost sight of the suspects hands and if he went reaching I would have dropped him right then and there.


You, as a private citizen, would have entered the store planning on getting lunch, would have noticed this guy just sitting there not doing anything, and would have immediately pulled out your gun, and had it aimed at him, just in case he did something, up to the moment that he peacefully left the store?

How often do you just randomly see someone you think is a threat, and immediately pull you gun out, aiming it at people, until they leave?

And you feel that this happens often enough in your life that your behavior is justified?

Wow.

BC.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
All the more reason why establishments like restaurants,
businesses, ect need to allow honorable, good citizens to carry their weapons at all times.


Let's go the other direction for a New York minute, and see what the alternative outcome might have been:

Imagine if guns were not available as easily as they are in the US.
This guy might not have had a gun.

If this guy did not have a gun, two Law Officers might have gone home to their families.

So please, tell me how this world is better off with everyone having free access to wheel barrels full of guns, and the world is better off without these two officers being part of their families lives?

Come on, justify how everyone, including bad guys, should have access to guns.

Remember that a law abiding citizen can turn into a criminal or a mentally unstable individual at any time, and that can't be predicted.

BC.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp


I love the insinuation that your average firearm owner has Jason Bourne abilities with firearms.


Probably true.

I recall as a young Army officer some years ago on the pistol range. I would practice head shots as well as center of mass.

The instructor said I would score better if I shot center of mass. My reply was if I can aim for the head while calm, chances are under pressure I could aim for center of mass and get a hit.

Practice to do something harder in addition to your rote drill to become more proficient at the task.

And practice more than one tactic. If you find yourself in a situation where you are not armed, what will you do?

I can tell you that I'm not going to go quietly.

Attack through the ambush!

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
All the more reason why establishments like restaurants,
businesses, ect need to allow honorable, good citizens to carry their weapons at all times.


Let's go the other direction for a New York minute, and see what the alternative outcome might have been:

Imagine if guns were not available as easily as they are in the US.
This guy might not have had a gun.

If this guy did not have a gun, two Law Officers might have gone home to their families.

So please, tell me how this world is better off with everyone having free access to wheel barrels full of guns, and the world is better off without these two officers being part of their families lives?

Come on, justify how everyone, including bad guys, should have access to guns.

Remember that a law abiding citizen can turn into a criminal or a mentally unstable individual at any time, and that can't be predicted.

BC.


Even if guns were all illegal and banned, people will still have them. Do you think if a law is passed, every gun in the country will just go *POOF* and magically disappear? It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to make guns just go away. Period. If guns were made illegal, all that would accomplish is taking them away from responsible, law-abiding citizens. A criminal (who, by definition, does not obey laws) isn't going to care that having a gun is against the law. The criminals that have guns ALREADY have them illegally, as they're not registered, likely stolen, they don't have a permit to carry, they're likely already convicted of a crime that prevents them from ever being able to carry legally, etc. Yet they still have guns. So explain how making more laws on banning or restricting gun ownership will keep guns away from criminals.

I prefer to live in a country where even though criminals will inevitably get their hands on guns, I can carry one legally, use it responsibly, and have at least a chance at defending myself against a criminal with one.

 

[Smoky14]

Remember that a law abiding citizen can turn into a criminal or a mentally unstable individual at any time, and that can't be predicted.

THIS INCLUDES POLICE so should we disarm them also? I've been shooting and carrying for over 50 years. Never shot anything I didn't intend, and doubt I ever will.

I prefer to have the option. MHO

Smoky

 

[jg1]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Anybody who thinks LEOs go through intense training is very misinformed. The average gun enthusiast shoots more often and more accurately than your average LEO who views their gun like a carpenter views a screw driver.


Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.


A good friend is retired SD PD. One of his favorite stories is an account of a time an officer was given the go ahead to take out a threat that was shooting sporadically – position was an open 2nd story balcony. Officer was positioned 20-25 yrds at ground level - 15 rds later no hits. From this one anecdote I wouldn’t draw a conclusion and call it a microcosm of all officers. I would say the same if the first shot had been a kill shot.

take care.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Even if guns were all illegal and banned, people will still have them.

Take a look at Canada. Pistols have been very difficult to get since the 1930s. Of course, they're still used in crimes. The illegal ones didn't magically disappear nor did the legal ones become theft-proof. And, as I mentioned in another thread, I can get an illegal handgun off the street faster and easier than I can get a legal handgun here. So, all that tells me is that if I wish to follow the rules, I'm going to have a hassle. If I don't care about the rules, things are easier.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Even if guns were all illegal and banned, people will still have them.

Take a look at Canada. Pistols have been very difficult to get since the 1930s. Of course, they're still used in crimes. The illegal ones didn't magically disappear nor did the legal ones become theft-proof. And, as I mentioned in another thread, I can get an illegal handgun off the street faster and easier than I can get a legal handgun here. So, all that tells me is that if I wish to follow the rules, I'm going to have a hassle. If I don't care about the rules, things are easier.

So how much for a decent semi auto with a couple magazines and a box of ammo?
Say I've decided to try being Walter White, what do you think the odds would be of me rolling up in my kiwi green Focus wagon with enough cash on me to buy a hand gun, and actually walking away with a functional handgun, or my money?

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter


Come on, justify how everyone, including bad guys, should have access to guns.
BC.


Please let me know as soon as you have confiscated all of the guns from all of the criminals, and then you can have mine.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.


Dollars spent guarantees nothing but positive results? Absolutely not.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: mk378
Carrying a gun does not make you bulletproof. It makes you a priority target.

So you can see through my pants and inside pocket holster and determine I am carrying a firearm....oh I get it..you bought a pair of those glasses in the 1960's that allowed you to see through walls and women's clothing...how silly of me.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Anybody who thinks LEOs go through intense training is very misinformed. The average gun enthusiast shoots more often and more accurately than your average LEO who views their gun like a carpenter views a screw driver.


Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.
I think the police hit rate of less than 50% speaks for itself. Never mind all the bystanders hit by loose police bullets. If you think messing around on a square range a few times a year means you're an elite shooter I'm afraid you're the one that's misinformed.

 

[Doc8404]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Anybody who thinks LEOs go through intense training is very misinformed. The average gun enthusiast shoots more often and more accurately than your average LEO who views their gun like a carpenter views a screw driver.


Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.



Great point, as long as it is in the budget and spent, that equals proficiency.



Note the sarcasm

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Anybody who thinks LEOs go through intense training is very misinformed. The average gun enthusiast shoots more often and more accurately than your average LEO who views their gun like a carpenter views a screw driver.


Interesting. I'm an elected county supervisor and I know exactly what we spend to keep our local sheriff's office trained. Our deputies practice on a regular basis as part of their job, and we also send them to annual training along with specialized training such as K9 training. My guess is, unless you are also a county supervisor and know exactly how much the training budget is in your county, you are the one who is misinformed.
I think the police hit rate of less than 50% speaks for itself. Never mind all the bystanders hit by loose police bullets. If you think messing around on a square range a few times a year means you're an elite shooter I'm afraid you're the one that's misinformed.


Keep in mind the situation those police officers are in while achieving that hit rate. Even the best marksman's shooting wouldn't be nearly as accurate when they're in a real life deadly force encounter. Police officers are highly trained, but no training in the world can totally prepare you for coming face to face with your own death.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: hatt
I think the police hit rate of less than 50% speaks for itself. Never mind all the bystanders hit by loose police bullets. If you think messing around on a square range a few times a year means you're an elite shooter I'm afraid you're the one that's misinformed.

Well you are thinking wrong. You as a non-leo need to use deadly force as a last resort. Meaning you don't shoot at someone who is not directly threatening you ..that is not your job. You shoot when you have a 90%+ chance of protecting yourself or your loved ones. I hope you know that. If not please take additional training.