Changing recommended oil grade

[Tjulo]

I own a 2014 Grand cherokee V6. Recommended oil is 5w-20. As I live in the tropics where ambient temp. is between 20-40 degrees celcius all year round. Can I change the oil grade to 5w-30 or 10w-30. It seems to me that I can even use single grade 30. Can somebody comment?

 

[Learn Ya]

Before disseminating any information, please thoroughly research and comprehend the subject matter. It is crucial to avoid spreading misinformation, as it can lead to incorrect beliefs and potential harm. If you firmly believe that using a thicker viscosity is detrimental to an engine, then you are indeed misinformed.

Dude. I was there. I witnessed the situation firsthand...and I witnessed the aftermath. Based on my witness account, using the wrong oil CAN BE detrimental in SOME situations. It may not happen to everyone, but it happens.

So, keep using your off-spec oil and let us know how it works out for YOU in that nice new Toyota.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Dude. I was there. I witnessed the situation firsthand...and I witnessed the aftermath. Based on my witness account, using the wrong oil CAN BE detrimental in SOME situations. It may not happen to everyone, but it happens.

So, keep using your off-spec oil and let us know how it works out for YOU in that nice new Toyota.

Employing a higher viscosity will not result in catastrophic damage provided that the winter grade is suitable for the climate. The concept behind this is quite straightforward. The engine did not grenade due to the use of a viscosity exceeding the specified value. I feel compelled to summon @kschachn to this thread, to end this debate, given your inability to comprehend this. I’m using one of the best oils available. Increasing viscosity is not “off spec”…..

 

[Lawnman23]

My friend had a Triton V-10 in a new motor home. He said "Oil is oil. Dump it in" and we headed down the road on our annual camping trip. About 20 miles later, his new Triton V-10 started knocking and he was stranded along Interstate-5. The cause of failure was oil starvation to bearing #blahblah due to off-spec oil. His warranty claim was denied. His appeal was denied. Lawyer said that he had no case because Ford had evidence and he admitted to using a different oil.

So, good luck with your oil experiment. Again, let us know how that works out after 50,000 miles or so.

Do you know what viscosity oil he used?

The Ford spec for the Triton V10 is 5w-20 up to 2015 and 5w-30 for 2016+.

 

[Learn Ya]

I feel compelled to summon @kschachn to this thread, to end this debate, given your inability to comprehend this.

Feel free to summons whoever you wish. I'm not debating this anymore. I was there. You and @kschachn were not. Goodnight.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Feel free to summons whoever you wish. I'm not debating this anymore. I was there. You and @kschachn were not. Goodnight.

Refrain from asserting that using a thicker viscosity will inevitably cause damage. This claim lacks factual basis and people come here for valid information so they can make informed decisions. While I cannot definitively ascertain the cause of your friend’s Ford engine failure, I can assure you that it was not attributable to the use of a thicker viscosity.

 

[Glenda W.]

Fact is engines have to be able to run safely on a wide range of viscosities due to oil temperature fluctuations. For example a 0w20 in Alaska that never gets over 190 degrees is thicker than a 0w40 in Texas at 240 degrees. Same principle applies to severe service where oil temps can drastically rise.

OP there is no danger in using a 5w30 or even a 10w30 in your tropical climate.

 

[Tjulo]

Yeah the multi grade w part doesn't even start to do anything till around 0 to 10c.
At 20c there will be almost no difference between straight 30 vs 5w-30.

That is what I have been understanding all along my readings about engine oil. Many tend to not interpret “ambient temp” and “engine temp.” as two separate issues that need separate solutions.
Thanks for your input.

 

[kschachn]

That is what I have been understanding all along my readings about engine oil. Many tend to not interpret “ambient temp” and “engine temp.” as two separate issues that need separate solutions.
Thanks for your input.

You can use the Widman calculator and see this as a graph.

 

[ka9mnx]

Dude. I was there. I witnessed the situation firsthand...and I witnessed the aftermath. Based on my witness account, using the wrong oil CAN BE detrimental in SOME situations. It may not happen to everyone, but it happens.

So, keep using your off-spec oil and let us know how it works out for YOU in that nice new Toyota.

So...You have no idea of what the "proper oil" and what the "improper oil" used caused the problem?

 

[JavierH19]

If it was mine it'd get 15w-40.

 

[Dimitrius James]

Employing a higher viscosity will not result in catastrophic damage provided that the winter grade is suitable for the climate. The concept behind this is quite straightforward. The engine did not grenade due to the use of a viscosity exceeding the specified value. I feel compelled to summon @kschachn to this thread, to end this debate, given your inability to comprehend this. I’m using one of the best oils available. Increasing viscosity is not “off spec”…..

I'm wondering if his friend perhaps used an oil with the incorrect additive pack. If the vehicle called for an API SP oil, but he used something with a euro spec, for example that didn't have the additive pack necessary to properly protect and lubricate his engine.

 

[doublebase]

Wasn’t the V6 Pentastar initially spec’d for 5W30 anyway? Before the never ending quest for a tenth of a mpg improvement? Unless there has been some drastic change with that engine, I’d say 5W30 is fine.

 

[Dimitrius James]

Thick oil has a habit of pushing Toyota VVTI intake phaser lock pins out and not allowing them to re-seat and lock. This causes an awful rattle on a cold start. However, the problem is caused by Toyota using a weak spring which is then exacerbated by thick oil. The resolution is to change the spring to a stronger one.

How thick are we talking here? While Toyota specs 0w-16, or 0w-8 in most of their cars sold now in the U.S., the owners manuals will state that 5w-30 and 10w-30 are fine for the exact same vehicle in other markets. Would these be oils in Xw-40 range where this is happening?

 

[Lawnman23]

I'm wondering if his friend perhaps used an oil with the incorrect additive pack. If the vehicle called for an API SP oil, but he used something with a euro spec, for example that didn't have the additive pack necessary to properly protect and lubricate his engine.

There is no add pack, or lack thereof, that would have launched that engine in the 20 miles claimed. There is a lot more to that story than what we have been told.

 

[Dimitrius James]

There is no add pack, or lack thereof, that would have launched that engine in the 20 miles claimed. There is a lot more to that story than what we have been told.

I agree. And without the whole story, we are probably never going to know. Unfortunate because I, and I assume most of us, would like to know the root cause.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm wondering if his friend perhaps used an oil with the incorrect additive pack. If the vehicle called for an API SP oil, but he used something with a euro spec, for example that didn't have the additive pack necessary to properly protect and lubricate his engine.

The Triton V10 is old school and a Euro additive package is more robust than your bog standard API SP one, so that definitely would not have caused an issue.

He'd have had to use something that:
- Didn't have an additive package (so, like something on the PQIA watch list)
- Was so inappropriate in viscosity that it didn't pump or it was insanely thin, like 0W-8, and took out the bearings. If it was the former, well, he would have had a hell of a time pouring it in the engine, and if it's the latter, he's a moron. Scratch that, in either instance, he'd be a moron.

 

[Hohn]

...until it does.

Don’t hold your breath. It hasn’t happened yet and and tommorow isn’t looking good either.

 

[Hohn]

Feel free to summons whoever you wish. I'm not debating this anymore. I was there. You and @kschachn were not. Goodnight.

Nobody is questioning the facts you are relaying. It’s your mistaken conclusions from the facts you know and ignoring the facts you do not know.

You do not know WHICH oil was used. It is a logical fallacy to conclude that because one oil of different spec caused a failure in a particular case that all oils of different spec can cause a failure in all cases.

The logic between those two statements is different:
1) “Using VR1 in a street engine that burns oil can cause emissions system failure”
2) Using any oil other than the OEM specified can cause a failure

Moreoever, the fact that statement 1 is true does not make statement 2 true. Statement 2 is true. Using an oil other than mfg recommendation *can* cause a failure. But it’s not true because statement 1 is true. Nor is the truth of statement 2 able to justify the specific claim that the oil your friend used (unknown) cause a particular failure.

If I put gear oil or Wesson vegetable oil in my engine, it will likely fail and it would be supporting the truth of statement 2. Neither of those oils meet OEM specs for engine oil and they can (and may) cause engine failure.

But that is an entirely different claim than saying that using 10w40 API SL oil caused a failure when API 5w20 SN is specified.

If you understand sound reasoning, none of what I posted above is news to you. If you don’t, the above is likely completely wasted on you and you’ll persist in error.

 

[Titan]

A 10 weight oil at room temp is thicker than a 60 weight oil at operating temp. The thought that engines can ONLY operate correctly with X weight oil means that engines can only operate correctly at a certain temperature. Engines operate with relatively thick oil every time they start up. So unless you are referring to the winter rating being low enough for severely cold temps, engines operate correctly with relatively VERY thick oil every time they start up. Even if the atmospheric temp is 125F, the oil is thicker than it will be once the engine warms up to operating temp.

 

[Dimitrius James]

The Triton V10 is old school and a Euro additive package is more robust than your bog standard API SP one, so that definitely would not have caused an issue.

He'd have had to use something that:
- Didn't have an additive package (so, like something on the PQIA watch list)
- Was so inappropriate in viscosity that it didn't pump or it was insanely thin, like 0W-8, and took out the bearings. If it was the former, well, he would have had a hell of a time pouring it in the engine, and if it's the latter, he's a moron. Scratch that, in either instance, he'd be a moron.

Wonder if this isn't what actually happened. It makes sense.