CAFE Standards in the US and Oil Grades

[Hogwash]

Hogwash

Well played

 

[farrarfan1]

It is a very pertinent part of the discussion. It openly illustrates thins are for CAFE mandate purposes only.

After it's been posted for the millionth time it sorta loses its dramatic effect, and I'm right in that it won't change a thing to keep shaking fists and throwing foreign owners manuals at that rotten old EPA.

I will admit that it's entertaining watching new members breathlessly posting about CAFE like they've uncovered some deep, dark secret that the auto manufacturers have kept hidden for the last 20 years.

 

[PimTac]

After it's been posted for the millionth time it sorta loses its dramatic effect, and I'm right in that it won't change a thing to keep shaking fists and throwing foreign owners manuals at that rotten old EPA.

I will admit that it's entertaining watching new members breathlessly posting about CAFE like they've uncovered some deep, dark secret that the auto manufacturers have kept hidden for the last 20 years.

If Bitog had been around when CAFE started started there would be over 40 years of arguing and going around in circles.

 

[farrarfan1]

If Bitog had been around when CAFE started started there would be over 40 years of arguing and going around in circles.

Exactly. “No way I’m running that water thin 5W-30 in MY car, I’m sticking to my tried and trusty 10W-40 just like my Pappy and his Pappy before him!”

 

[Ram02]

Thin is in , In the U.S. please dump out that heavy ass 5w30/0w40 and jump on the 0w16/0w20 Train “ALL ABOARD “ Cho Cho

 

[gfh77665]

After it's been posted for the millionth time it sorta loses its dramatic effect, and I'm right in that it won't change a thing to keep shaking fists and throwing foreign owners manuals at that rotten old EPA.

I will admit that it's entertaining watching new members breathlessly posting about CAFE like they've uncovered some deep, dark secret that the auto manufacturers have kept hidden for the last 20 years.

"Breathlessly?".. "Shaking fists and throwing manuals at the EPA"? Just because CAFE is mentioned in response to a thin oil discussion? Lets be fair. As long as one side of the discussion is presented, the other will be likely be there too, so do expect CAFE to be mentioned in response. Do you want to totally silence and censure any mention of CAFE while thin advocates can endlessly say anything and everything they want?

 

[gfh77665]

Exactly. “No way I’m running that water thin 5W-30 in MY car, I’m sticking to my tried and trusty 10W-40 just like my Pappy and his Pappy before him!”

How many times has that really been said? Please quote who said that.

Most simply ask "Why not run the same viscosity as the vehicle calls for all around the globe, except in the US?" The vast majority of the time that is 5w-30, not 10w-40.

 

[farrarfan1]

"Breathlessly?".. "Shaking fists and throwing manuals at the EPA"? Just because CAFE is mentioned in response to a thin oil discussion? Lets be fair. As long as one side of the discussion is presented, the other will be likely be there too, so do expect CAFE to be mentioned in response. Do you want to totally silence and censure any mention of CAFE while thin advocates can endlessly say anything and everything they want?

Silence the never ending discussions that “mention” CAFE? Absolutely not.

How many times has that really been said? Please quote who said that.

Most simply ask "Why not run the same viscosity as the vehicle calls for all around the globe, except in the US?" The vast majority of the time that is 5w-30, not 10w-40.

That was a response to Pim Tacs post about arguing about CAFE 40 years ago. I thought that was apparent since I quoted him.

 

[PimTac]

Silence the never ending discussions that “mention” CAFE? Absolutely not.

That was a response to Pim Tacs post about arguing about CAFE 40 years ago. I thought that was apparent since I quoted him.

To digress, yes there was some consternation when the trend shifted from 10w to 5w oils. Most people don’t know what the W means but the lower number scares them. That’s why we have people freaking out over the number 0.

 

[farrarfan1]

To digress, yes there was some consternation when the trend shifted from 10w to 5w oils. Most people don’t know what the W means but the lower number scares them. That’s why we have people freaking out over the number 0.

Which was the point I was trying to make in a semi humorous way by putting it in the context of a post made in 1980 BITOG. Which I know didn’t exist in 1980 in case someone questions that.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Imo it’s all about the ultimate equilibrium. As thick as possible/as thin as necessary. I feel the US specs are pushing the envelope as far as they can viscosity-wise to get the thinnest oil without catastrophe. Squeezing out the most minute amount of mpg without damaging the engine.

 

[4WD]

Well, some will follow OEM spec/grade until the powertrain warranty is done … step up a grade then

 

[wemay]

"Breathlessly?".. "Shaking fists and throwing manuals at the EPA"? Just because CAFE is mentioned in response to a thin oil discussion? Lets be fair. As long as one side of the discussion is presented, the other will be likely be there too, so do expect CAFE to be mentioned in response. Do you want to totally silence and censure any mention of CAFE while thin advocates can endlessly say anything and everything they want?

CAFE is hardly just...."mentioned."

 

[gfh77665]

No one is "breathless or shaking fists" about CAFE. (rolling eyes)

Why didn't you challenge that??

 

[blufeb95]

I have seen this come up time and time again, but after looking at owner manual information from around the world, on the same car, with the same engine - the US specs the lightest oil and even use words like "you can use this oil, but switch back immediately." Even Scotty Kilmer claims that if you don't use a lighter (0W-16) in your car with variable valve timing, you can damage your engine. As I have seen here, the less viscous weights are driven by the CAFE standards in the US and there is research from the late 90s that was collated by ORNL that 5W-20 is 1.5% more fuel efficient as compared to 5W-30. Even on a hypothetical car that is rated at 30 mpg, this would result in an observed efficiency of 30.45 mpg when switching to the lighter weights. Most of us would never notice the difference.

Here are some engines that I have found different oil specs for the US as compared to the rest of the world:
2ZR-FXE - GenIII Prius (2010 to 2015) US 0W-20; UK Corolla Hybrid 5W-30
M20A-FKS - 2019+ Corolla US 0W-16; UK 5W-20/30
2GR-FKS - 2017+ Tacoma US 0W-20; UK 5W-30
A25A-FKS - 2018+ Camry US 0W-16; UK 5W-30

1) There is absolutely no way that a manufacturer makes a different engine in the US as compared to the rest of the world. This would be cost prohibitive and a supply chain nightmare.
2) Even if you you used the heavier weight oil, you definitely wouldn't damage your engine - the manufacturer has obviously tested multiple grades for wear, longevity, and efficiency.

My guess is that you could use 5W-30 in practically 90% of passenger cars in the US. So why is there such an attitude of "USE WHATS IN YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL, OR ELSE!!!" and why is the language so strong in the US manuals?

Do other countries spec heavier oil for lower emissions?

If you read the Toyota manuals closely, the thinner oil is only recommended, the only thing required is Multi-Grade GF-5 or Multi-Grade API SN Resource Conserving, so you can use anything from the recommended 0w-16 all the way to 10w30, also Toyota does recommend using thicker oil when the engine is used in severe conditions or for heavier towing on the trucks.

 

[racin4ds]

I'm losing sleep at night worried about my DieselGate VW that I run 5W40 HDEO in and not the specified PCMO 5W30 they require. I'm so glad I read all of these 11 pages

Living in Florida, there isn't a car I'd own that would get anything thinner than 5W30. It is a known fact that CAFE rules mandate the thin oils. Sure, most daily drivers will last their entire life on that thin stuff with marginal issues but thank god we live in a free country (for now) and can choose to use whatever oils we like and are comfortable with!

 

[PimTac]

I'm losing sleep at night worried about my DieselGate VW that I run 5W40 HDEO in and not the specified PCMO 5W30 they require. I'm so glad I read all of these 11 pages

Living in Florida, there isn't a car I'd own that would get anything thinner than 5W30. It is a known fact that CAFE rules mandate the thin oils. Sure, most daily drivers will last their entire life on that thin stuff with marginal issues but thank god we live in a free country (for now) and can choose to use whatever oils we like and are comfortable with!

5w30 is a CAFE oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

To digress, yes there was some consternation when the trend shifted from 10w to 5w oils. Most people don’t know what the W means but the lower number scares them. That’s why we have people freaking out over the number 0.

LoL, yeah ... what they don't realize is the oil viscosity in the "0W" state will always be many mangnitudes thicker than any 50 or 60 at operating temperature.

 

[blingo]

Fears of no longer being able to get 5W-30 seemed more pressing before November

When US manufacturers will start specifying 0W-16 and 0W-8 this will help feeling even better with 0W-20.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Imo it’s all about the ultimate equilibrium. As thick as possible/as thin as necessary. I feel the US specs are pushing the envelope as far as they can viscosity-wise to get the thinnest oil without catastrophe. Squeezing out the most minute amount of mpg without damaging the engine.

"without damaging the engine" ... stated another way: "increasing slight amount of wear due to decreased MOFT, but not enough to blow-up the engine before 200K miles".