If CAFE/stringent fuel economy/emissions requirements didn't exist....would 0W-8/16/20 exist?

[notharry]

Yes and no AKA everyone wants to build a better product. Its competitive edge. Racing-. Racing has shown things can be done to improve X and win races. There are many many X platforms. Take your pick. Fuels, Oils, Metalurgy, Design, Weight reduction, Friction coatings and reductions many many more X whatevers came from motor sports. Would it have been as quick, probably not. But we cannot argue with these real world results.

Racing tech is here in new vehicles of every type, right? because this is not a thick vs thin debate. Its a how much of a differance can a new type of lubricant make in our engines regarding power and wear, less pit stops for fuel. If race engines could use 0w8 Would they? Sure. Can they now with current technology? Well yes in some. Will they use it more.

 

[oilstained]

Late to the game, already 3 pages long.

ATQ—I agree so.

 

[TiGeo]

ESP 0w-30 and Euro 0w-40 have the same HTHS specs...

40>30 in the thick/thin debate. They may have the same min HTHS (3.5) but the 40s should be a bit higher anyway.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Yes, if CAFE regulations didn't exist, we would all be using thicker oils, like the 5w-40 my GTI specifies.

This right here.
The thinnest oil available would be 0w-30 marketed as a winter oil.
Normal oil would be 5w-40 or 10w-40, Summer oil would be 15w-50

 

[OilUzer]

Aliens transfer advanced technology to us once in a while but I don't think low HTHS oil was one of them.
JK, about the oil I mean.

 

[DirectRejection]

I live in reality, minus the "reasons".

Hypotheticals are for philosophers.

This is oil.

 

[TiGeo]

I live in reality, minus the "reasons".

Hypotheticals are for philosophers.

This is oil.

THIS IS LIFE

 

[AEHaas]

I never had a problem running oil grades 2 or 3 or 4 grades below what was specified. No signs of accelerated wear. What it gives me is better fuel economy, more power and the comfort of running high RPM before the engine oils heat up to the normal running temperatures. I do use whatever grade may be needed, higher or lower, for expected oil temperatures during the run. The grade matches the applications for wear control but as thin as possible for my target driving characteristics.

I have used a 5 grade oil in a 450 BHP engine.

Ali

 

[TiGeo]

I never had a problem running oil grades 2 or 3 or 4 grades below what was specified. No signs of accelerated wear. What it gives me is better fuel economy, more power and the comfort of running high RPM before the engine oils heat up to the normal running temperatures. I do use whatever grade may be needed, higher or lower, for expected oil temperatures during the run. The grade matches the applications for wear control but as thin as possible for my target driving characteristics.

I have used a 5 grade oil in a 450 BHP engine.

Ali

Not permitted here (read that sarcastically).

 

[Glenda W.]

Well that explains the glitter bomb that came out of the Navigator oil pan….

 

[Al]

It ain't just CAFE.
Improved fuel economy is always desirable, at least to some of us.
As engines and oils have developed, thinner grades can provide enough protection to enable long engine life.
I really doubt that Toyota reduced its engine life targets to allow the use of 0W-8. Rather, the oil itself has improved as has the detail design of the engine and its lubrication system.

You really believe that?? First came the CAFE and then the oils to "Mitigate". I followed it very closely at the time and remember when they could not meet the required engine live and had to back off of that and redesigned their engines to meet. You really think Toyota would have done that on their own?? Dream on.

 

[fdcg27]

You really believe that?? First came the CAFE and then the oils to "Mitigate". I followed it very closely at the time and remember when they could not meet the required engine live and had to back off of that and redesigned their engines to meet. You really think Toyota would have done that on their own?? Dream on.

Well, I know that back in the eighties, when thirty grades ruled, improvements in fuel economy outstripped CAFE requirements considerably, so there was at least then broad interest in improved fuel economy. Manufacturers responded to market demand and improved emissions control strategies certainly helped. You could also buy cars then that you couldn't today, like the very lightweight smaller Toyota and Honda models of the time.
Not a dream, but a historical reality.

 

[Bkdc]

The #1 reason for pushing thinner oils is improved efficiency. Period.
In race cars, this is to get an edge in HP against your competitors. In consumer cars, it is for fuel efficiency.
Are there other reasons? They take a back seat to efficiency.

Anything thinner than 0w-20 is an exercise in diminishing efficiency in trying to eke out 0.05 miles per gallon improvement in fuel efficiency. And although I don’t have any data, I suspect shortening longevity of the engine by more than the equivalent percent. Although the car my die much easier due to degradation from other age related issues.

In a practical sense, the fuel efficiency gains between 0w-20 and 0w-8 will be almost imperceptible. So I just don’t see the practical reason to use 0w-8. It’s not as if your engine will self-destruct on 0w-20.

 

[mr_boring]

I love you all.

The correct answer: It's much easier to snort the mineral oily oils. And you absolutely 100% cannot for suresies know that "my engine loves XYZ" unless you snort some with your engine. That's the only way to achieve a Vulcan Mind Meld with your power plant.


I should run for Congress. I didn't even answer the question yet I bet a couple of folks find this helpful.

 

[Aston4]

It's universal presence would be delayed, for sure. The first computer many people owned came in a car they purchased in the 1980s. Would we eventually have electronic (port) fuel injection? Probably, but there would also be cheapo carbureted third world cars being imported if we lived without rules. Would the thrifty still be driving diesel Rabbits?

Look at the comparatively unregulated world of motorcycles and power equipment-- injection did eventually come, albeit much later, and not universally. But of course it had the parts bin and R&D from cars to draw from.

Absolutely. 55+mpg in the 1970s!!!

With zero computer, and an engine that would run with no alternator, no electricity and could be push started.


USA is speeding backwards, downhill, faster and faster. No one knows how to stop it.

(In before "Muh safety features.")

 

[Aston4]

It ain't just CAFE.
Improved fuel economy is always desirable, at least to some of us.
As engines and oils have developed, thinner grades can provide enough protection to enable long engine life.
I really doubt that Toyota reduced its engine life targets to allow the use of 0W-8. Rather, the oil itself has improved as has the detail design of the engine and its lubrication system.

Nevertheless, Toyota engine life has, in fact, plummeted.

 

[Patman]

Nevertheless, Toyota engine life has, in fact, plummeted.

I disagree big time. I’m in a Facebook group where people post about their high mileage vehicles and Toyotas are still king of the high mileage. Here’s a perfect example:

 

[Al]

In a practical sense, the fuel efficiency gains between 0w-20 and 0w-8 will be almost imperceptible. So I just don’t see the practical reason to use 0w-8. It’s not as if your engine will self-destruct on 0w-20.

I'm with you 100%

 

[ATex7239]

I love you all.

The correct answer: It's much easier to snort the mineral oily oils. And you absolutely 100% cannot for suresies know that "my engine loves XYZ" unless you snort some with your engine. That's the only way to achieve a Vulcan Mind Meld with your power plant.


I should run for Congress. I didn't even answer the question yet I bet a couple of folks find this helpful.

That was great! What an amazing story! Extraordinary! It’s huge! Big deal! I tell you - these people don’t care - it’s travesty. But we will show them. It’s a very bad deal for us - very bad - for our country. It’s not good. Too much bad. Cause they know, it’s very bad. You’ll see. Amazing. Just truly amazing. You’ll see. We’ll show them.

 

[Hohn]

Debating hypotheticals is fun for a second, but tiresome.

The history is that before big upticks in MPG mandates, super thin oils were not used in warm weather. They were exclusively the domain of arctic conditions, and even then only because the thin oils were the only way to ensure startability.

With modern oils with nearly zero paraffinic content, one could argue that the cold weather justification for thin oils is largely gone, with 40 grade oils on the market with pour points below -60F.


So perhaps mpg mandates are not only driving thin oils, but against the natural headwind that would have encouraged thicker, not thinner, oils?