If CAFE/stringent fuel economy/emissions requirements didn't exist....would 0W-8/16/20 exist?

[cammyfive79]

*This is NOT a thin/thick debate*

If we do assume that the reason for thinner and thinner oil formulations is to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy even fractionally, then if those reasons didn't exist or were not important to consumers and/or mandated by the government, is there a compelling case for an engine to spec 0W-8/16/20 over say a 0/5W-30/40 for reasons OTHER than fuel economy/emissions? Can a 0W-20 better protect an engine better than a 30wt if most other variables like base oil composition and additive package are the same/similar? Or is the hard and fast rule that a weightier oil will do better at protecting but you do lose fuel economy and propagate more emissions?

 

[kschachn]

*This is NOT a thin/thick debate*

If we do assume that the reason for thinner and thinner oil formulations is to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy even fractionally, then if those reasons didn't exist or were not important to consumers and/or mandated by the government, is there a compelling case for an engine to spec 0W-8/16/20 over say a 0/5W-30/40 for reasons OTHER than fuel economy/emissions? Can a 0W-20 better protect an engine better than a 30wt if most other variables like base oil composition and additive package are the same/similar? Or is the hard and fast rule that a weightier oil will do better at protecting but you do lose fuel economy and propagate more emissions?

Really? You could have fooled me.

Must be at least 50 threads on the exact same topic. Maybe more.

 

[cammyfive79]

Really? You could have fooled me.

Must be at least 50 threads on the exact same topic. Maybe more.

You must be thinking of "How does VRP clean?" or "Is HPL API certified?".

 

[Hall]

Here's Toyota's own description for their 0W-8 engine oil:

Genuine Toyota Motor Oil is premium quality and made by Toyota for your Toyota vehicle. and with Toyota Oil you get Toyota quality engine protection, improved fuel economy and anti-wear additives. The Toyota brand represents, durability and engine performance. So, use Toyota Oil, the best 0W8 Motor Oil available for your Toyota vehicle. And use Genuine Toyota oil and Genuine Toyota oil filters when servicing your vehicle. And with quality base oil and Toyota additives, you can keep your engine clean and at top fuel efficiency.

Then again, they use the same description for 5W-30, 10W-30, etc....

 

[rijndael]

I'm interested to hear/read more about the differences between wear and friction, and what the reduced friction to improve fuel economy does for wear. Some have said they don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

 

[cptbarkey]

It is whatever you concocted in your head with the line of questioning. Perhaps you also watched a trash Project Farm video too lately.

 

[cammyfive79]

Here's Toyota's own description for their 0W-8 engine oil:


Then again, they use the same description for 5W-30, 10W-30, etc....

Yeah, seems like they cut and paste that for marketing on all of it.

 

[cammyfive79]

It is whatever you concocted in your head with the line of questioning. Perhaps you also watched a trash Project Farm video too lately.

"Honey, come in here..... The oil nerds are extra grouchy today and exercising their best teen angst impressions."

Nah, haven't watched a single video of his past 30 seconds at which point I knew I wasn't interested, but thanks for the question.

 

[dnewton3]

Given the question, there are a few undefined elements which would affect the answer ...

- if it were a traditional ICE application, I'd say that 5w-30 would pretty much be the rule across most typical vehicles
- if it were a hybrid application, they still may well favor the thinner lubes simply because those engines don't come up to full temp as often, and so the lubes are thinner for a reason

 

[Rand]

If Gasoline was free would EV's Exist?

*This is NOT a thin/thick debate*

if you have to put that disclaimer in... it is indeed a thick thin debate.

 

[userfriendly]

If Gasoline was free would EV's Exist?

If people were smarter, they’d burn CNG in their ICE vehicles instead of burning CNG in a power plant to charge their EVs.

But then, there would be nothing to protest.

 

[buster]

To answer your question, I think it would be highly unlikely that those grades would be common in the market today.

 

[Allaned]

Yes, if CAFE regulations didn't exist, we would all be using thicker oils, like the 5w-40 my GTI specifies.

 

[KevinMalone]

Personally I don't think so, as some owner's manuals say to use a thicker oil for more severe usage (implying that it offers better protection)

 

[dubber09]

Imho, they'd come to existence but would be just recommended for better fuel economy and not 'mandated'.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

*This is NOT a thin/thick debate*

If we do assume that the reason for thinner and thinner oil formulations is to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy even fractionally, then if those reasons didn't exist or were not important to consumers and/or mandated by the government, is there a compelling case for an engine to spec 0W-8/16/20 over say a 0/5W-30/40 for reasons OTHER than fuel economy/emissions? Can a 0W-20 better protect an engine better than a 30wt if most other variables like base oil composition and additive package are the same/similar? Or is the hard and fast rule that a weightier oil will do better at protecting but you do lose fuel economy and propagate more emissions?

To answer the question in your title. It's unlikely because we probably would not have fuel injection and would still be using conventional oil on 3k mile oci.

 

[eljefino]

To answer the question in your title. It's unlikely because we probably would not have fuel injection and would still be using conventional oil on 3k mile oci.

It's universal presence would be delayed, for sure. The first computer many people owned came in a car they purchased in the 1980s. Would we eventually have electronic (port) fuel injection? Probably, but there would also be cheapo carbureted third world cars being imported if we lived without rules. Would the thrifty still be driving diesel Rabbits?

Look at the comparatively unregulated world of motorcycles and power equipment-- injection did eventually come, albeit much later, and not universally. But of course it had the parts bin and R&D from cars to draw from.

 

[TiGeo]

Bingo card time.

 

[Rand]

Bingo card time.

waiting.

 

[Klutch9]

The question posed in the title is actually an intriguing one. Mainly because of other questions it raises. Having regulations has also required the oils to be much better than they used to be, regardless of viscosity. Would the oils we have now be as good if other regulations weren’t in place?