CAFE Standards in the US and Oil Grades

[kschachn]

What about the morals of the automotive manufacture deliberately suggesting such thin oils for their own gain at the expense of the longevity of your engine? They DON'T want your car lasting long. They want it to fail just outside of warranty(marketing gimmick) so they can sell you a new one. Rinse and repeat. Vehicles have become cheap appliances. I remember when appliances, like vehicles, used to last 20+ years and now you're lucky if they last 5-10!
Corporate capitalism has one thing on their mind. How to take the most money from you as often as possible.
I refuse to be willingly scammed and cheated so others can make profit off me. No thank you. I work hard for all I own and I want it to last. Rant off

A cynical view that is unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.

 

[Jetronic]

Are there figures for the average age of cars in the US, now, for 2010, for 2000, and 1990?

Car quality really started to get better around 1990, better rust proofing, better fuel injection etc... is the average age now stabilising or declining compared to then?

 

[ka9mnx]

/\ 12 years

 

[aquariuscsm]

Are there figures for the average age of cars in the US, now, for 2010, for 2000, and 1990?

Car quality really started to get better around 1990, better rust proofing, better fuel injection etc... is the average age now stabilising or declining compared to then?

I think 90s era cars are way better than current cars. Especially the Japanese cars. When Japanese cars started being made in the US,the quality went down big time. But I still prefer them.

 

[53' Stude]

Which is also why so many 90’s cars rotted out too. My old 91’ Acura Integra rotted out from the wheel wells

 

[aquariuscsm]

I've actually never seen a rusted car before,maybe it's a Texas thing, no rust. I still see 70s-80s Japanese cars still on the roads here.

 

[Rygrego]

I have seen this come up time and time again, but after looking at owner manual information from around the world, on the same car, with the same engine - the US specs the lightest oil and even use words like "you can use this oil, but switch back immediately." Even Scotty Kilmer claims that if you don't use a lighter (0W-16) in your car with variable valve timing, you can damage your engine. As I have seen here, the less viscous weights are driven by the CAFE standards in the US and there is research from the late 90s that was collated by ORNL that 5W-20 is 1.5% more fuel efficient as compared to 5W-30. Even on a hypothetical car that is rated at 30 mpg, this would result in an observed efficiency of 30.45 mpg when switching to the lighter weights. Most of us would never notice the difference.

Here are some engines that I have found different oil specs for the US as compared to the rest of the world:
2ZR-FXE - GenIII Prius (2010 to 2015) US 0W-20; UK Corolla Hybrid 5W-30
M20A-FKS - 2019+ Corolla US 0W-16; UK 5W-20/30
2GR-FKS - 2017+ Tacoma US 0W-20; UK 5W-30
A25A-FKS - 2018+ Camry US 0W-16; UK 5W-30

1) There is absolutely no way that a manufacturer makes a different engine in the US as compared to the rest of the world. This would be cost prohibitive and a supply chain nightmare.
2) Even if you you used the heavier weight oil, you definitely wouldn't damage your engine - the manufacturer has obviously tested multiple grades for wear, longevity, and efficiency.

My guess is that you could use 5W-30 in practically 90% of passenger cars in the US. So why is there such an attitude of "USE WHATS IN YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL, OR ELSE!!!" and why is the language so strong in the US manuals?

Do other countries spec heavier oil for lower emissions?

I agree 100% with you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Which is also why so many 90’s cars rotted out too. My old 91’ Acura Integra rotted out from the wheel wells

Road salt ahoy in the winter I bet.

 

[Jimmy_Russels]

What about the morals of the automotive manufacture deliberately suggesting such thin oils for their own gain at the expense of the longevity of your engine? They DON'T want your car lasting long. They want it to fail just outside of warranty(marketing gimmick) so they can sell you a new one. Rinse and repeat. Vehicles have become cheap appliances. I remember when appliances, like vehicles, used to last 20+ years and now you're lucky if they last 5-10!
Corporate capitalism has one thing on their mind. How to take the most money from you as often as possible.
I refuse to be willingly scammed and cheated so others can make profit off me. No thank you. I work hard for all I own and I want it to last. Rant off

If you wanted to force a change of technology every 5-10yrs, this would be the way to go.

Std light bulbs were phased out this way, only in favor of hazmat mercury filled replacements.

Fuel cell H is the future.

 

[tolian21]

I do not buy theory that modern engines have thiner oil channels that require light weight oils. There are examples of the same car for US market vs European countries, and specs allow for thicker oils in European markets. Seems like thiner oils are mostly driven by American CAFE standards. IMHO.

 

[kschachn]

If you wanted to force a change of technology every 5-10yrs, this would be the way to go.

Std light bulbs were phased out this way, only in favor of hazmat mercury filled replacements.

Fuel cell H is the future.

By what favorable thermodynamic pathway are we getting that hydrogen?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Seems like thiner oils are mostly driven by American CAFE standards. IMHO.

No "seems like it" ... fact is it's all CAFE driven.

 

[PimTac]

No "seems like it" ... fact is it's all CAFE driven.

And the argument has been going on now for almost 46 years.

 

[4WD]

And the argument has been going on now for almost 46 years.

 

[tolian21]

Specific example, mazda 3 2016 manual https://www.mazdausa.com/siteassets...16/mazda3-4door/2016-mazda3-owners-manual.pdf specifies 0w-20 for US and 5w-30 for all other countries.

 

[PimTac]

Specific example, mazda 3 2016 manual https://www.mazdausa.com/siteassets...16/mazda3-4door/2016-mazda3-owners-manual.pdf specifies 0w-20 for US and 5w-30 for all other countries.

Typical owners manual verbiage. The Mazda SkyActiv engines were designed from the start to run on 0w20 and I can tell you mine runs very quiet and smooth on that grade of oil.

The final decision of course is yours.

 

[farrarfan1]

Specific example, mazda 3 2016 manual https://www.mazdausa.com/siteassets...16/mazda3-4door/2016-mazda3-owners-manual.pdf specifies 0w-20 for US and 5w-30 for all other countries.

I do not buy theory that modern engines have thiner oil channels that require light weight oils. There are examples of the same car for US market vs European countries, and specs allow for thicker oils in European markets. Seems like thiner oils are mostly driven by American CAFE standards. IMHO.

Every time a new member brings up the foreign owners manual and CAFE argument it's like they've discovered something new, but it's actually just the same old broken record that has been played over and over thousands of times in BITOGs 20 year history.

 

[PimTac]

Every time a new member brings up the foreign owners manual and CAFE argument it's like they've discovered something new, but it's actually just the same old broken record that has been played over and over thousands of times in BITOGs 20 year history.

Yep and it’s very possible it is the same person coming back again and again under different stage names.

 

[53' Stude]

View attachment 38921

 

[tolian21]

Every time a new member brings up the foreign owners manual and CAFE argument it's like they've discovered something new, but it's actually just the same old broken record that has been played over and over thousands of times in BITOGs 20 year history.

I am not discovering this for first time. this is still not settled argument, people have different opinions about industry moving towards thinner oils. Opinions vary.