Toyota 2AR-FE - Which Oil Grade?

[Hohn]

One of those sources is a fellow BITOG-er @MolaKule who I believe is very knowledgable about oils.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/which-transfers-heat-better-thick-or-thin-oil.10413/

You are misapplying Molakule's statement. Transferring heat more effectively actually slows engine warmup because because a smaller delta in temperature will move the heat outside the engine at the same rate.

Again, heat transfer within the engine and warmup aren't the same thing. It's the difference between the quantity of water you have and the size of the bucket used to move it.

Surely you agree that thinner oils cool better (higher heat flow because of more flow and not enough offset in specific heat capacity from lower density) when hot?

So if one agrees that thinner oils cool better when hot (and they do) then it MUST be the case that they cool better when cold also. And this-- combined with lower parasitic drag-- causes the engine to warm up slower, not faster.

Don't confuse the location of the heat with the total quantity of heat.

Go back to thermo, draw a bounding box around the engine and think of it that way. One one side of your energy balance equation you have energy consumed (shaft work, pumping work) and on the other you have all the energy inputs: chemical energy, kinetic, etc.

With that perspective, it should be quite clear that a thicker oil's higher shaft work dissipates more energy, burns more fuel, generates more heat, and causes the engine to warm faster.

 

[Hohn]

I think we talk about different things.
I'm talking about which oil absorbs heat quicker. Absorbing is when two objects touch and the heat is transferred from the hotter object (pistons, rods) to the cooler (oil) and vise versa.

This can be easily discovered when you put to pots on the stove at the same heat one full of 0W-20 and the other full with 15W-40 or 20W-50. I'm saying the 0W-20 oil warm up quicker. You can put a third control pot with water.

Assuming identical specific heats, the slightly lower density of thin oils does indeed cause the thinner oil to warm faster in your stove example.

But that's not what's happening in the engine. In your stove example, all the pots are on the same heat source and receiving the same energy input. That is NOT the case in the engine.

Again, you are confusing heat transfer rate (mass flow times specific heat) within the closed system of the engine as being the same thing as the heat movement into and out of the closed system of the engine.

Different things.

 

[Navi]

Does he run Amsoil in his fleet??

He sure does and even showed the 52 gallon drum of it...

 

[iCurious]

The simple answer is - I don't like to use anything at its border line or its extremes with the only reason to keep it from failing. It's something like pepole change their oil when is 15-20% on the OLM, instead of waiting until gets to 0%. It's a preventive measure that helps the engine in the winter.
0W-20 CCS - 6000 at -35°C/-31°F
5W-30 CCS - 6200 at -30°C/-22°F
Oil may have pumpability at those degrees but do we know how it looks like, how goes through the filter, since that's border line for those viscosities. Is the oil is pumpable enough, is the engine wear the same as let's say 20°F warmer?


https://www.vioc.com/newsletters/march-2023-newsletter/March-2023-1/#:~:text=What%20Does%20Viscosity%20Mean?,fully%20lubricate%20the%20engine's%20parts.

Selecting the Right Oil for Your Vehicle - section

https://www.autozone.com/diy/motor-oil/viscosity-5w20-vs-5w30-vs-10w30

How I know that - I listen to my engine on start up. If my engines makes less noises with 0W-20 at low temp I prefer it before 5W-30 because I don't push often my car much to rationalize for any thicker oil, but I do cold start engine at least twice a day. In my case many days below 20°C in the winter.

Also, engines with timing chain (like 2AR-FE) may experience timing chain/sprockets wear, if driven with ticker oil, especially in the winter. I've read that long time ago on car forums written by mechanics. And the noise (I'm talking about) the engine makes when too cold is from the cam chain.

You have been a member here since 2018. This has been beaten to death about thick vs thin and oil pumpability. Short answer is - it does not make a difference if you are using the appropriate Winter rating. How cold does Chicago gets? Also what you hear or feel does not count as facts or being technical. It falls into the category of anecdotal.

 

[tired]

He sure does and even showed the 52 gallon drum of it...

He runs XL I think in the fleet? SS in his truck?

Wonder what his OCIs are in those fuel diluting Ecoboosts...

 

[Navi]

He runs XL I think in the fleet? SS in his truck?

Wonder what his OCIs are in those fuel diluting Ecoboosts...

I have repeatedly read on this Bob website that he runs XL, however, on the Youtube channel he specifically says he runs Signature Series and even shows the 52 gallon drums of it. I do not doubt you guys, but on his Youtube channel he does not mention XL.

He even did an entire video on the oil he runs showing the drums.

 

[FZ1]

You could, but it would almost always be a downgrade. The 0w oils are better because they have to use better base oils to meet 0w. So run the 0w because you want the better bases, not because you need the superior cranking.

Thanks, Hohn.

 

[Pretty Lies]

I finally decided to switch to 5W-30 from 0W-20 on my 2AR-FE. Noticed on a Car Care Nut Video @ 54:19, he says the 2AR-FE "was originally designed for 5W-30."

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Sounds like a design issue Toyota should be fixing for free!

 

[Japanese]

I finally decided to switch to 5W-30 from 0W-20 on my 2AR-FE. Noticed on a Car Care Nut Video @ 54:19, he says the 2AR-FE "was originally designed for 5W-30."

Thanks a lot for the valuable video. My engine is at 170K, but I don't think I have signs of worn balance shaft. I'm switching to 5W-30 at my next oil change as well, at least in the summer, but probably in the winter too.

Yes, I often forget this engine has a balance shaft and those extra four gears definitely shear and wear down the oil quicker than normal. Other engine just have 3 gears in the engine fi they have a timig chain and those with timing belt has zero gears in the engine (excluding the 2 oil pump gears). The 2AR-FE has total of 7 gears that are lubricated by the engine oil - 3 of the timing chain and 4 of the balance shaft. The balance shaft is actually two shafts and they have total of four bearings too.
https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/2az-fe-balance-shaft-failure.1636514/#lg=thread-1636514&slide=1

Also, this video made me believe that for sure 0.5 qt of the old oil stays in the engine after an oil change. I thought before that it might be just 0.2 or 0.3 qt.