Shut your mouth. Don't ever let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Why No 20 Weight Euro Oils ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
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Yeah that's group 1 base oils. You can't really even get PCMO made from group 1 base oils in North America anymore.
Even the retro SG, SH, SJ rated oils are all made from at least group 2.
Group 1 oils were the ones you had to change around 3,000 miles and you were living dangerously changing at 5,000.
Is the Grp 1 issue the cause of the Pennzoil "wax in oil" thing or is that a totally different issue?
I think that's the reason. I have seen it. I posted a thread not long ago about recently using sj rated Pennzoil from around 1998. It has wax bugers in it. That oil ran fine in my lawnmower.
Out of curiosity, and since you have possibly dated yourself
what was the standard weight of oil that Joe Anybody would be running in their plain as white bread Ford Pinto or the likes back in the mid-70's? 10w-30 or 40 I assume?Found this old thread about 5w-30's introduction which also touched on the issues with 10w-40's...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/when-did-5w30-first-come-out.59456/
No it was the inferior VM of the time. Other less wide-spread grades did not have the same problem.
Yes fuel economy and long-drain capability.
That could be the case, or maybe it had the HTHS of a 0W-16, depending on the type of VII used.
Before HTHS measurements were a requirement, it seems that 5W-30 oils typically ranged from 2.7 to 3.1 cP. A lot of them were the equivalent of a modern 5W-20. Modern oils in a given grade probably have higher HTHS on average than they did before HTHS requirements were introduced.
Way way back, compared to TX crude, Pennsylvania crude had more wax which would cause varnish if run too long. However it held viscosity better.
Obviously with more advanced refining techniques the amount of wax and s stripped out and oil is sourced from all over the world so it's irrelevant and has been for a couple of decades.
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You’re correct
It was just a cheap conventional 5w-30 oil. The only less wide spread grade available would have been a 10w-30. Around that time 0w-30 was still kinda new, or if it had been around no one had really heard of it.
Have you forgotten the member who has a 1957 Plymouth and posted the page from his owner’s manual that showed 20 grade as an oil option?
I started using M1 5-20 in 1978 while living in Maine. The go to oil at that time was 5-40 Valvoline (my oil of choice) but it caused terrible valve clatter in my V8 Chevy in extreme cold temps. M1 5-20 cured the start up clatter then and I've stayed with it ever since. M1 that is of various wts.
I ran 10W40 and 10W30, maybe even some 20W50 in my ‘72 Pinto in the early ‘80s. I don’t really remember seeing much 5W30 until the late ‘80s, but I was too poor back then to have anything new anyway. I didn’t even have an EFI car until my ‘84 AMC/Renault Alliance I had in 1986 or so.Out of curiosity, and since you have possibly dated yourself
Found this old thread about 5w-30's introduction which also touched on the issues with 10w-40's...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/when-did-5w30-first-come-out.59456/
Not to mention high heat resistance, superior arctic cold flow capability, and cleaning ability. M1 was so far ahead of the pedestrian oils of the time-we don’t realize how much better we have it now. Engines that were once gone by 100K have the ability to still be running strong at 300K!
There is already 0w12 Euro oil on that note.
Is the 2.6 HTHS of today’s 5W20 oil really that much worse?
There have been several white papers posted that show HT/HS vs wear has an inflection point right around 2.7 HT/HS IIRC. Meaning, wear begins to accelerate very rapidly below 2.7 if additional engineering measures (wider bearings, tighter clearances with tighter tolerances, variable volume/pressure oil pumps, etc) are not taken to offset the lack of sufficient oil film thickness between contact points in the engine.
I never said it wasn't an option. I have said it was regularly used as winter oil until multi grade oils were widely adopted. I'm sure they continued put straight 20 weight in manuals for quite some time even after multi grades were in wide use for old people who were set in their ways.
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