Some thoughts about non-Euro Oil in my Euro car.

[D4700]

I get the want/need for European spec oils in last-generation (perhaps early 2010s-ish and older) Euro cars. Japan and the USA seem to have been at the forefront of low viscosity oils, whereas Europe lagged well behind, sticking with high viscosity lubes into the 2010s. Conversely, the Americans and Japanese seemed to lag somewhat behind the Europeans when it came to widely adopting certain features such as turbocharging, direct injection, higher operating temperatures, and extended drain intervals.

It seems this is no longer the case. The Japanese are still winning the race to the bottom of the viscosity scale with 0w-8, but new BMWs are running >2.0cP 0w-12 oils, and seemingly every Euro car has specced a >2.6cP (ish?) 0w-20 for the past decade. Most new American and Japanese cars on the road have downsized TGDI engines with ~10,000 mile drain intervals (on the other hand, BMW actually dropped their base interval from 15,000 to 10,000 quite some time ago). Combustion engine and lubricant technology between the continents seems to have converged significantly in the past decade or more.

So, my question is this: Why should I care about running a European oil?

I'm tired of going out of my way to find a mid-SAPS BMW licensed oil when Quaker State Ultimate Protection 5w-30 is staring me in the face every time I go to Walmart. GTL base, LSPI-friendly additive package, inexpensive, mid-SAPS, dexos1 Gen3 license which seems to be relatively stringent. The additive levels we can see on a VOA are similar to the contemporary lower-vis Euro offerings - remember, everybody has the same goals and are running the same technologies nowadays.

I'm not suggesting you go out and run SuperTech in your track driven M3, but I'm curious what everyone thinks about running an ILSAC 5w-30 in a modern, street driven European car designed for 0w-20 from the factory.

Now where's that flame suit again...

 

[Astro14]

European spec has a lot less to do with viscosity and a lot more to do with the drain interval, and HTHS specification.

Look, there are multiple dimensions, or facets, to every single specification, and you are conveniently ignoring every single one of them except for viscosity.

Hand waving over “technology“ is merely a convenient way to ignore all of the other aspects of oil performance and specification.

You better put your flame suit on because what you suggest is a dumb idea. If you wanna run a nonspecified ILSAC oil in an expensive new European car, that’s fine, knock yourself out, good luck with that. It’s your wallet.

But don’t go recommending it to other people.

 

[Vercingetorix]

If you’re at Walmart why not buy the ESP 0w-30 Mobil 1? It has a higher viscosity and Euro specs. $27.97 for 5 quarts in a convenient jug.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-ESP-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-0W-30-5-Quart/1756386056

 

[Glenda W.]

I think you meant to ask if a Euro oil is ok to run in a domestic vehicle.

 

[Fa24wrx]

Not sure if it helps answer:
Many of us, myself included, are switching TO euro formulas for the higher HTHS that is provided from Euro oils. I just ordered two 5 qt jugs of Valvoline Euro 5w30 xl iii for my 2022 subaru wrx.

That Valvoline meets both API SP and great euro specs like BMW LL04/ Porsche C30/ MB 229.5X.

If you want convenient purchasing, it doesn't get any easier for me than ordering directly from Valvoline. I've done it several times. And they usually have some kind of deal going.

 

[TiGeo]

It's not going to hurt it plus it's the Rat540 oil of choice! Seriously though the correct oil is basically the same price and just as easy to get/can just order it if it's not on the shelf so not sure why the desire?

 

[JavierH19]

It's not going to hurt it plus the Rat540 oil of choice! Seriously though the correct oil is basically the same price and just as easy to get/can just order it if it's not on the shelf.

Is it because he claimed QS achieved some ridiculous figure like 120,000 psi or something, I don't even know what he was on about with that high psi testing. I know some oils were in the 60,000 psi range but i don't know what testing methodology he was using or was he making up his own?

 

[TiGeo]

Is it because he claimed QS achieved some ridiculous figure like 120,000 psi or something, I don't even know what he was on about with that high psi testing. I know some oils were in the 60,000 psi range but i don't know what testing methodology he was using or was he making up his own?

It's some sort of play on the "one armed bandit" based on my reading. He's a kook but entertaining to read his blog.

 

[JavierH19]

I'm tired of going out of my way to find a mid-SAPS BMW licensed oil when Quaker State Ultimate Protection 5w-30 is staring me in the face every time I go to Walmart. GTL base, LSPI-friendly additive package, inexpensive, mid-SAPS, dexos1 Gen3 license which seems to be relatively stringent. The additive levels we can see on a VOA are similar to the contemporary lower-vis Euro offerings - remember, everybody has the same goals and are running the same technologies nowadays.

I'm not suggesting you go out and run SuperTech in your track driven M3, but I'm curious what everyone thinks about running an ILSAC 5w-30 in a modern, street driven European car designed for 0w-20 from the factory.

Now where's that flame suit again...

You can order PP Euro L 5w-30 which is a mid saps LL-04 and dexos 2 rated oil for cheap and right to your door with free shipping on $35+ orders. There's many LL-01 offerings too. QS Euro is $23 and meets bmw approvals. QS Euro is actually a buck cheaper than the QS UP 5w-30 you want to use. I don't understand why anyone would want to spend more to use something weaker and less stringent in an engine especially when the engine calls for it.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil...sKR5e7yAzJ6eXdxPYwhan1O7yxzB1MqRoCovMQAvD_BwE

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Quaker-S...R_yLOFabUz9RbrrILMrol4tzDBLm1RlRoCpG4QAvD_BwE

 

[factorytuned2012]

As mentioned drain interval and emissions protection

 

[shortyb]

Going out of your way to get it? Really? Move a couple feet over to the left and pick the Mobil 1 ESP 0W-20 (or the 0W-30 if you want a 30wt.). Or better yet, order some from the comfort of your own home. You WILL have to go out of your way to get up from the keyboard while drinking your coffee and go ALL THE WAY to the front door to pick up the package. Where the delivery person put it. So you didn't have to get up and go somewhere.

Crappy argument/justification for using something other than what you should. And don't get us started on another 20wt. vs. 30wt. vs. 40wt. debate. Got more of those than Walmart has oil. Oh forgot, you're tired of going there and out of your way .

 

[ATex7239]

“Going out of your way” to buy oil as statement in 2025 is hyperbolic. Oh no! I have to use my highly advanced phone and credit card to purchase this product online vs that product online. All done while sitting on the couch. We shouldn’t be bothered with such laborious things.

 

[kschachn]

It's some sort of play on the "one armed bandit" based on my reading. He's a kook but entertaining to read his blog.

The guy is a complete moron. He thinks he's obtaining some sort of relevant and meaningful data but he's delusional. It's neither one of those. And on top of it he's belligerent towards those who point out how utterly useless it is what he's doing.

An irrelevant test performed with improper equipment, and obtaining insignificant results that is then used to draw unwarranted conclusions. Every last aspect is wrong.

 

[Patman]

It's some sort of play on the "one armed bandit" based on my reading. He's a kook but entertaining to read his blog.

It’s scary that some people (not you) read his blog and actually think that he knows what he’s talking about. He’s a hack and a detriment to people who really want good information about motor oil

 

[kschachn]

As mentioned drain interval and emissions protection

Plus increased HT/HS, and with proven superior oxidation resistance and resistance to ring and piston deposits. The approval brings a lot to the table.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I get the want/need for European spec oils in last-generation (perhaps early 2010s-ish and older) Euro cars. Japan and the USA seem to have been at the forefront of low viscosity oils, whereas Europe lagged well behind, sticking with high viscosity lubes into the 2010s. Conversely, the Americans and Japanese seemed to lag somewhat behind the Europeans when it came to widely adopting certain features such as turbocharging, direct injection, higher operating temperatures, and extended drain intervals.

It seems this is no longer the case. The Japanese are still winning the race to the bottom of the viscosity scale with 0w-8, but new BMWs are running >2.0cP 0w-12 oils, and seemingly every Euro car has specced a >2.6cP (ish?) 0w-20 for the past decade. Most new American and Japanese cars on the road have downsized TGDI engines with ~10,000 mile drain intervals (on the other hand, BMW actually dropped their base interval from 15,000 to 10,000 quite some time ago). Combustion engine and lubricant technology between the continents seems to have converged significantly in the past decade or more.

So, my question is this: Why should I care about running a European oil?

I'm tired of going out of my way to find a mid-SAPS BMW licensed oil when Quaker State Ultimate Protection 5w-30 is staring me in the face every time I go to Walmart. GTL base, LSPI-friendly additive package, inexpensive, mid-SAPS, dexos1 Gen3 license which seems to be relatively stringent. The additive levels we can see on a VOA are similar to the contemporary lower-vis Euro offerings - remember, everybody has the same goals and are running the same technologies nowadays.

I'm not suggesting you go out and run SuperTech in your track driven M3, but I'm curious what everyone thinks about running an ILSAC 5w-30 in a modern, street driven European car designed for 0w-20 from the factory.

Now where's that flame suit again...

Ya there has been a convergence and running a higher grade in synthetic is fine. The biggest difference between Euro and Asian engines has been power density. For example, BMW's mass produced engines for the last 20 years having been making well over 100 hp/liter. Toyota just dipped their toe in the 100 hp/liter field with their new TT V6 (they recommend a 20 grade btw). Increased power density means more heat which either requires additional oil cooling or higher viscosity oil in order to maintain the min viscosity.

Btw...finding a EURO oil should be easy, plenty of M1, Pennzoil, Castrol euro oils staring you in the face (ex, M1 0w40). No mass produced engine was designed to use only a 20 grade. They were designed to allow for the use of a 20 grade. Note: There's no LSPI issue with BMW engines and full-saps formulations discourage LSPI.

 

[Patman]

Ya there has been a convergence and running a higher grade in synthetic is fine. The biggest difference between Euro and Asian engines has been power density. For example, BMW's mass produced engines for the last 20 years having been making well over 100 hp/liter. Toyota just dipped their toe in the 100 hp/liter field with their new TT V6 (they recommend a 20 grade btw).

Don’t forget about their GR Corolla as well. 300 horsepower from 1.6L! Yet they come from the factory with a 0w20 too I want to get a GR Corolla someday and I would also likely modify it to make 350-400 horsepower so I definitely would be running something like ESP 0w30 (or something similar with a 3.5 HTHS)

 

[ATex7239]

The guy is a complete moron. He thinks he's obtaining some sort of relevant and meaningful data but he's delusional. It's neither one of those. And on top of it he's belligerent towards those who point out how utterly useless it is what he's doing.

An irrelevant test performed with improper equipment, and obtaining insignificant results that is then used to draw unwarranted conclusions. Every last aspect is wrong.

He doesn't even do an oil luge race or coffee pot griddle test, how are we supposed to take him seriously?

 

[wavinwayne]

You can order PP Euro L 5w-30 which is a mid saps LL-04 and dexos 2 rated oil for cheap and right to your door with free shipping on $35+ orders...

Indeed. This is what I do for my 535d. Oil is shipped free when I buy 2 bottles and it arrives in 2 days. $26.44 per 5 quart jug.

 

[TurboZedd-R]

If you’re at Walmart why not buy the ESP 0w-30 Mobil 1? It has a higher viscosity and Euro specs. $27.97 for 5 quarts in a convenient jug.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-ESP-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-0W-30-5-Quart/1756386056

This comment is underrated. Esp the world